008: A Nice Little Whoop-A!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: So your butt cracks out all the time now? Yeah. [00:00:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it's. I think it's partly because I. I put my pants in the dryer every time I wash them. That might be a problem. [00:00:13] Speaker A: What do you mean? They're shrinking? [00:00:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I think they might be, but, like, part of it's got to be weight gain because it's worse every single time. But, like, I just. Every time I get up out of a chair, I gotta pull them up now because I can feel the air on my love handles when I get up out of a chair. [00:00:33] Speaker A: How are you drying your pants? You dry them on heat or do you dry them on, like, no heat? I dry all my clothes no heat. It just takes like three. Three cycles to do it. [00:00:44] Speaker B: I just do the normal cycle with all the other clothes. [00:00:48] Speaker A: All right, so. Oh. All right. So I wanted to revisit something. Remember when I was telling you? [00:00:56] Speaker B: What? [00:00:57] Speaker A: I'm glad you asked. I'm drinking Maharaja ipa. [00:01:01] Speaker B: That's such a freaking good ipa, dude. I'm bummed at what I'm drinking, but I don't drink a lot of beer, so this is special for me. [00:01:09] Speaker A: What are you drinking? [00:01:10] Speaker B: This is just a Guinness in a frosted glass. And it's pretty damn good. It's better than I remember. [00:01:19] Speaker A: Nice. Okay. And I'm smoking a 10th anniversary cellar reserve from Gurkha. [00:01:26] Speaker B: Nice. [00:01:29] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So revisit one of our old episodes when I said I talked to. My daughter's normal, like, normal, like adults, you know, we've been bike riding a lot and, you know, we ride near this, next to the street, and like, with her it's only, make a left, make a right, make a left, make a right, you know? And yeah, the first couple of days were pretty rough because she's like, I know how to ride a bike. I'm like, really? Because you're riding it like a retard. And she's like, she is. I don't ride my bike like a retard. I ride it like a midget. And I was like, okay. Yeah, I kind of like that. I thought that was good. Good comeback. But she's learned left and right within a day, you know? [00:02:11] Speaker B: Nice. And this is number four, right? This is a number three. [00:02:19] Speaker A: Yeah. This is the eight year old. Yeah. So I'll tell you, my dream was just surreal. I don't need to really talk about it, but it was definitely surreal. I thought I was at work and we got shot up and I woke up, like, legitimately thinking about yesterday because that's when it supposedly, you know, I thought I woke up and I lived that for some reason. And I'm like, dude, like, yesterday was pretty crazy. What was the other thing I texted you about? [00:02:48] Speaker B: Well, hold on, hold on. I want to know more about this because I've been, like, very interested in the subconscious, if I even believe in that. I don't know if I believe in the deep down, you know, Like, I think we are kind of just what we do and say. But, like, there does seem to be, like, information that you don't have full access to all the time. And it's a trip somewhere. [00:03:12] Speaker A: Because what I want to know. [00:03:15] Speaker B: I want to know how you reacted to the shooting, because I think that might be the closest thing to the reality of how you really would react. [00:03:24] Speaker A: Okay. [00:03:26] Speaker B: Did you fight him? [00:03:28] Speaker A: No. Okay. So it was a weird situation that I went to work and I. Like, it was something going on with the guy at work. Like, he was living at the job site, like, in our trailer. And I was like, dude, like. Like I had the knowledge that he was being let go or he was leaving or resigning, but he was not going to be at the company anymore. And all of a sudden, like, some cars start driving around the trailer and he's like, oh, they're here for the house. And I'm like, what else are you talking about? And the next thing you know, they just start shooting up the place. I remember getting. It was all of a sudden, like I'm a hostage somewhere. Like, there's guys with guns inside the place. And I hear bullets, like, hitting the ground next to me, flying, like, by us. And at this time, like, those guys that were holding us hostage are no longer there. It's just like innocent people laying on the ground. And there was a lot of us. And I just remember thinking, okay, so this is. They're gonna tell my daughters I died at work. Like, this is how I die. And they're gonna tell my daughters I died at work. I was like, all right. It was just like they were just drive by shooting, just like shooting the place up. It was just, like, erratic shooting. And I just remember, like, laying on the ground being like, all right, well, this is. This is. This is where I die. This is. And they're gonna tell my daughters I died in the shooting at work. Like, that was the thought that crossed my mind. And then I wake up and I don't know. [00:04:59] Speaker B: I believe in the blase attitude about it. I think that's very true to what you would do, but I feel like you Would take some kind of action. I feel like you'd be shielding people. [00:05:14] Speaker A: That's different. It's. [00:05:16] Speaker B: You'd be blocking windows because. [00:05:18] Speaker A: Well, no, it was. At the time, it was just me and that guy. [00:05:22] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Yeah. [00:05:23] Speaker A: And then once I hit the deck. Yeah. And then once I hit the ground, like, no longer was I in a trailer anymore either. I was on dirt and there was a bunch of people laying on the ground. And then, like, yeah, I don't know. And then I wake up in my dream. I wake up and I'm like. And I'm. I'm at a new job site. Number four is with me. I'm at a new job site and I'm like, holy crap. Like, how did we get here? And they're like, yeah, we had to relocate. Like, that trailer's all shot up. And I'm like, okay, so what happened? Because I'm missing a block of time. I'm missing a block of time from when the shooting. When I was on the ground being shot at to how I ended up here. Like, what. What happened? [00:06:08] Speaker B: And then I ended up down here in a wheelchair. [00:06:11] Speaker A: Well, in my dream, I, like, went back to the old job site to, like, rummage through stuff to see if I left anything. Oh, and then I wake up. [00:06:19] Speaker B: Vivid, dude. [00:06:21] Speaker A: It was the most vivid, dude. Like, I woke up, sat on the toilet, and audio recorded everything that happened. [00:06:27] Speaker B: Damn, dude. I'm almost surprised that it didn't become a lucid dream, dude. [00:06:33] Speaker A: I honestly woke up thinking about yesterday. Like, okay, so, like, did that. Did that happen yesterday? And I'm like, I had to, like. Like, okay, what do I have to do? Like, what. What do I do for. Like, I had to actually walk myself back to who I am. Because it felt so real that I was like, I don't have a job site like that. Where was that town? And I'm like, no, this. This ain't where. Like, no, that had to be a dream. Okay. Yeah, it was a dream. Okay. Yeah. Kind of trippy, dude. [00:06:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd say. Shit. [00:07:02] Speaker A: What was the last thing I texted you about? [00:07:06] Speaker B: Said bike ride. Dream. And it's never too late to make a change. [00:07:11] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. This is for our listeners. Okay. This is for anybody. Actually, man, I was walking. So I'm walking my job site, and I'm walking to my trailer, and this is a really big area. Like, think of maybe, like a saddleback church type property. All these different buildings owned by government entity. And I'm walking back to my trailer at the end of one Spot. But I had. Then I realized, oh, shoot, like, I should go check on these guys at the other project. And I'm like, oh, Like, I almost just wanted to walk to my trailer and then walk there. And honestly, I was like, I just stopped, and I. I, like, turned and went in the direction that I should have. And I was like, I just remember telling myself, like, no matter how far down the road you are, it's never too late to stop and head the right direction. And I was like, wow, that's kind of like something you could apply to life. Like, no matter how far down the road you are, you can always stop and head the right direction. Like, you don't have to continue on because you've committed so much to that walk. And that's where I was at. I was kind of like, well, I've already committed. I'm almost at my trailer. And I was like, but, you know, this is still shorter than me getting. This is still shorter to me getting to my goal than me actually finishing this walk to my trailer, then going to the place I wanted to go. And I was just like, man, I. Like, that's. You know what? That's. That's shareable. So, yeah, that's what I wanted. [00:08:42] Speaker B: I think that that goes very well with what you've told me about the growth mindset. [00:08:48] Speaker A: Mm. [00:08:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, thinking about more, like, what you could do from here and less about, like, what you're stuck in currently. [00:09:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:09:02] Speaker B: Okay. Well, I'll share a little encouragement. I'll share a little encouragement just because I wanted to somehow bring this up, but I didn't think it really fit. We talked a while back about cutting people off because of their sin and how a lot of people do that, and they apply things that are really meant for, like, church membership to, like, their friends and family. That. And I'm. I think we both agreed that may not be appropriate. There was a situation. My. My church plant that I was a part of in. In California fell apart after, you know, last year sometime. And they're just. I don't know what happened, but just all of a sudden, in the same week, maybe a month, everyone just started calling me, wanting to, like, tell me this whole story and tell me who did what and tell me where the bodies were buried and get me to side against people and tell me I can't be friends with certain pastors anymore and all this stuff. And I don't know if it's just age or rebellion or what it is, but I've. I've Always been. I think I've always been a gossip. And I think that's a big problem of mine, is that I've always wanted the scoop. And I've always wanted to, like, let people in on secrets and tell people what I know. And not everyone, but, like, selective people like you. [00:10:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, I was. I was in that group. So, yeah, I know what you're talking about. [00:10:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:41] Speaker B: But I don't know, dude. The first call I got, I listened to the guy because he was clearly very hurt by whatever happened or his perspective of whatever happened. But I just remember feeling like, dude, there is almost nothing you could tell me to make me stop being friend. Like, I don't know, dude. It's just not gonna happen. Like, I. I'm. You know, and I think there's. There's always been those select people like you and, you know, other people I don't want to name, but there have always been people that, like, people could talk shit. And I just don't really buy it, you know? And the whole call just sort of ended with, like, okay, well, that is very hard to believe. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that that happened, you know, And. And, yeah. So all I'm saying is if you find yourself talking shit or backbiting, gossiping, you can. You can make a choice right here and now that you're going to be loyal to your friends and that. That's just not going to be a thing for you anymore. [00:11:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And that, Sebastian, is a great segue into our topic tonight. The current state of the church. [00:11:59] Speaker B: Sebastian, huh? So I guess that makes you. That makes you flounder. [00:12:05] Speaker A: Oh, I guess. Wow. I thought of, like, a rock and roll friend of mine. I was like, yeah, he's kind of got that vibe. You went straight Little Mermaid on me. [00:12:17] Speaker B: You were thinking, is that Skid row? [00:12:19] Speaker A: I know Little Mermaid by heart, but I'm a father and a brother of three sisters. [00:12:25] Speaker B: Mm. [00:12:25] Speaker A: How come you know a Little Mermaid by heart? [00:12:27] Speaker B: Oh, I'm a pedophile. Just kidding. I haven't seen it. My sister was big into Little Mermaid, and I probably haven't seen it since I was 4 or 5, but somehow I remember those two characters. [00:12:46] Speaker A: Now, I don't say this, but I've heard it said. You remember that, like, submarine that went. That. That, like, little submarine that went to the Titanic ended up, like, missing? [00:13:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:02] Speaker A: Again, I don't say this, but I've heard it said, no submarines went missing when the Little Mermaid was white. [00:13:13] Speaker B: Dude, I think. I think one of the Best ones I saw was it was just a picture of the girl right after she was cast. And they said, to be fair, maybe someone with dyslexia said they were looking for a ginger dude today at work. [00:13:33] Speaker A: Oh, that's messed up, bro. [00:13:35] Speaker B: What? [00:13:36] Speaker A: That took me while. I knew. I knew. I knew. Yeah. I knew a black girl who. Whose name was Ginger. And I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, Ginger is kind of a black name. Wow. [00:13:46] Speaker B: Let's see if I can top that here with a conversation that'll get me fired. Everyone was talking about vinegar for some reason. Oh, yeah, okay. I remember how it started. So they were talking about fries, and one person said that they. They like, ranch with their fries, and everyone attacked this guy. And I was like, hey, I'll do that too. Like, that's. That's fucking nuts that you guys would jump on this guy for that. That's a pretty normal thing. One guy had the gall to say mayonnaise. That made me want to Fucking. [00:14:17] Speaker A: Your. Your best friend that went to the Air Force. They all ate their fries with mayonnaise. I thought that was really weird. [00:14:23] Speaker B: I'm puke. I'm gonna fucking puke. [00:14:25] Speaker A: That's gross. [00:14:26] Speaker B: So one guy says that in Europe, the most common thing to dip french fries in is vinegar. So then we start talking about. We start talking about vinegar and, like, pickling things and, like, how it's salt and vinegar that you pickle things and salt and vinegar chips and all this stuff. And look, I was trying to work this joke in, and I couldn't do it. But then a golden opportunity presented itself. The one dude was like, my parents used to wash my mouth out with. With vinegar when I said bad words. And I said, whoa, that's crazy, because there's a bad word in vinegar. [00:15:11] Speaker A: You're horrible. You probably tell people, you know what sharks and white people have in common? All the great ones are white. You're that kind of guy. [00:15:22] Speaker B: No, no, no. That's too on the nose for me. I fly under the radar. [00:15:29] Speaker A: All right, Sebastian. Welcome, guys, to Pseudonym Podcast. [00:15:33] Speaker B: Yeah, man, I love the cold open. I love that we're doing that. [00:15:37] Speaker A: I do, too. I realized that's what you like, and I was like, let's go with it, dude. I kind of like it. I like it. Yeah. Welcome to Pseudonyms Podcast. I'm Flounder with my co host, Sebastian. [00:15:49] Speaker B: Okay. Hey, you don't have to be Flounder if you don't want it. Seemed like it really hurt. [00:15:53] Speaker A: You know what, dude? He's such a guppy it's cool. [00:15:59] Speaker B: He's a. He's a flounder. [00:16:02] Speaker A: Yeah, but she says, oh, flounder, you're such a guppy. No, I don't remember that beginning of the movie when he doesn't want to go through the ships. Okay. [00:16:12] Speaker B: Wood, though. You would. [00:16:15] Speaker A: What? [00:16:16] Speaker B: Wood. [00:16:18] Speaker A: Mm, wood. What? [00:16:23] Speaker B: The Little Mermaid. [00:16:28] Speaker A: All right, so tonight's topic is the. The state of the current church, which I think your. Your story was a great segue into the. The topic tonight. And this topic really came to me because I've always been a critic of the current church. I've always been. And. And getting me with. [00:16:56] Speaker B: I was going to. I was going to say was fodder for those of us, because I think I kind of have been critical, too, and had so many original opinions about it, like, angles that I just hadn't thought of that it was like, he was not good for us. I don't think nobody was great at. [00:17:16] Speaker A: The same time, because look at. Look at when Covid happened. I mean, judges were saying that churches couldn't meet. And pastors. If pastors gave a sermon, they're going to. I mean, like, legitimately, if a pastor gave a sermon, they were going to remove them from a 501C3. [00:17:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:38] Speaker A: So therefore, you see a government power over a church. And so, like, you know, with. With that, you know, again, the body doesn't pay the. The pastor in a 501C3. They. They donate to the church. The church cuts a check to the pastor. [00:17:54] Speaker B: So to bring that around, like, his big criticism was that to file a 501 and become like, a recognized organization was kind of like, not a very biblical thing for the church to do, to kind of bring itself under the authority of the state. [00:18:13] Speaker A: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember going to Calvary School of Ministry. They had asked, do you think Calvary Chapel is a. A denomination? Like, I think they said denomination. I don't know if that's the word they use, but. And I said very much so. Like, you guys are. You have a big enough circuit. Like, my whole. Not thesis, but my whole, like, final finals essay was on the fact proving that. Yeah, I think Calvary Chapel very much is a. I. I want to say denomination is not the right word, but. [00:18:55] Speaker B: I. I think you're right, because I think we've talked about that before. [00:18:59] Speaker A: And what would like Baptist and Pentecostals would. That wouldn't be denomination. That would be what. [00:19:04] Speaker B: Yeah, those are denominations. Okay, well, so, yeah, it depends because I think. I think there are denominations like that and then like Presbyterian is a denomination, but then there's different organizations of Presbyterian. Yeah, there's PC, usa, pca, opc, all that. And those are different denominations. But you could. [00:19:24] Speaker A: Methodist would be a denomination, correct? [00:19:26] Speaker B: Yeah, but then I'm sure there's different denominations of Methodist. So it's kind of like the same. [00:19:33] Speaker A: And funny thing is, is on sermon central, which is like, you know, I've posted a sermon on there before, but it's like where pastors post their sermons, sometimes help others. You know, you go there sometimes to find like help on your sermons or whatever. One of their options now is Calvary Chapel. Like it has Christian, non denomination, non denominational, evangelical Catholic, you know, has like all these different filters you could apply. And Calvary Chapel is now its own filter. [00:20:05] Speaker B: Well, there are so many of those churches. There's its own culture, there's its own celebrities, and there's even distinctives. They have books about the Calvary Chapel distinctives. You know, we had a reading. Another word for that is dogmatics. Dogmatics is the term for what an individual denomination believes and what sets them apart from other denominations. That's essentially the same idea. [00:20:38] Speaker A: So this kind of came about because I've been attending church with my daughter at a church that I personally don't care for. And I don't care for it because it's really, it's like I don't care for the simple fact that I just don't think it's scripturally heavy. Yes, they are biblical in their teaching. However, like, he'll throw. He'll spend more time on his stupid analogies about his dogs when he was a kid than like, like actually like the verse, you know, he wants to give you background on his dogs. He wants. And I'm like, dude, land the fucking plane. You know, like just landed. And so this last weekend he had some. A church organization from Europe and they were talking about how they're planting churches in Europe and how they're coming alongside churches that are struggling and you know, like believers in general are kind of like not strong in Europe. And he goes, they're trying to raise $5 million to like furnish this place and you know, give the pastor some assistance financially and all this other stuff. And he goes, they raised $5 million. Is our, the head pastor of that place of Rock, Rock Point. And he says they raised $5 million with 450 people. He's like, we're trying to raise 6 million and we have 1700 people. And he's like, I'm trying to get that building built out there, you know, And I'm like, really, dude? Like, and then he made the comment, somebody gave this guy a million dollar check. And when he told me that, man, I just wanted to punch him in his face, you know? And he was, and he was laughing like, joking you, though. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. But to me, it's like you're showing a lot of who you really are. Like, and I just feel like, I don't know, man. Like, when I was laid off, I tried for rental assistance. I was number. He said, the waiting list in front of me is 40,000 people. 40,000 in Phoenix need rental assistance here. This dude is trying to raise 6 million to build another building. Now, mind you, this place is similar. [00:22:52] Speaker B: To Saddleback, so it's like a really nice building already. [00:22:55] Speaker A: It's all really nice building already, you know, and maybe he doesn't want to go to four services and that's why he needs another building. But I mean, this is their second or third building. [00:23:08] Speaker B: Yeah, Plan a church. Don't, don't keep adding services. It's crazy. [00:23:13] Speaker A: Well, they do that too. They do have some church plants. I'm not against that, but I mean, like, I don't know, man. I'm just so against the current state of the church. Like. [00:23:22] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I think there's a certain kind of church that takes the spotlight with a lot of this stuff. We've already mentioned Saddleback several times and you know, I think a lot of the mega churches like that, I think we agree that that's gross. But like, I don't know, there's a lot of churches doing it right, but, but it does seem to be few and far between. But is it like, I don't know, I think your average Baptist church, your average Presbyterian church, they're probably doing it fine. You know, they're not like trying to, you know, they're, they're helping their congregation out and they're not stealing money and they're not, you know, but it just seems like. I, I don't know, I mean, I thought for a while mega churches were starting to kind of die out and it seems to kind of be having a resurgence. But. Yeah, I don't know, I get why. [00:24:22] Speaker A: I mean, there's so many churches in our area within like 10, 10 miles. I'd say roughly 10 miles, maybe 20. I mean, they're about a 20 minute drive from the house. 15, 20 minutes, dude. I mean, like, they have cops shutting down parts of the Road on Sundays so that these. So there's no traffic, like letting. [00:24:43] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:24:44] Speaker A: And these places are full. And they have three services. The parking lots are always full. They got parking across the street. [00:24:50] Speaker B: We live right next to a giant mega church. They literally block the road to let people turn into the parking lot. [00:24:59] Speaker A: Dude, we have probably seven of those within 10 miles of where I live. [00:25:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:05] Speaker A: I mean, it's ridiculous now the churches that are doing it. Right. I don't know how true this is of now, but I know. I heard Francis Chan, when he left his megachurch. [00:25:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:16] Speaker A: He went to China with his kids for a couple years, let them see kind of what a third world country is like. And maybe not China, but in the area they were in was like a third world country. And then they came back and he started a home church. And his limit is 25 people. What you typing up, bro? [00:25:41] Speaker B: I wanted to find out where he lived. [00:25:45] Speaker A: And. [00:25:47] Speaker B: Hong Kong. [00:25:49] Speaker A: Hong Kong. I don't think that's third world, but definitely not. [00:25:53] Speaker B: I think it. I think parts of it are. [00:25:56] Speaker A: Yeah, from what I heard it was. It was like, pretty. Pretty. But he's always been a really, like. Even when he was a pastor of a megachurch. Wrote a, Like a little sec. Like not segue, a little motorcycle, you know, one of those girl motorcycles, you know, best spot. [00:26:14] Speaker B: Yeah, girl motorcycle. [00:26:17] Speaker A: And lived in an apartment, you know. And here he was making millions and love that. What is that? Crazy love. I mean, he donated all the proceeds to that to. To organizations and. And stuff like that. But his church now, from what I understand, is once they reach the 25 area of their congregation, 25 people. He has already raised up another man to start his take the over the overload in his house. [00:26:50] Speaker B: I like that model a lot. I'm concerned with how you get guys ready so quickly and they might not be ready to really spawn off and do that, but I do like the model a lot. I like keeping things small. Dude. Master's plan, although the second best church I ever was a part of, I don't think I ever beat the community that we had at Master's plan because there was literally a moment where everyone in the room on a Saturday night, I knew them well. I had been in their house and shared a meal with them. And I've never had that anywhere else. [00:27:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so let's, let's, let's. Let's use the analogy of a company. You work for, some of these bigger companies. You never meet the CEO. CEO don't know you by name. You don't know some of the other departments, you know, like, you can literally be walking around, you know. The facility I'm working at has five or six locations just in this area. And they're all the size of Saddleback Church. But it's an actual, like not a government. But they do a lot of government work. They do a lot of work with the military, a lot of work with NASA, a lot of work with CIA. And they have so many facilities and these, these things are huge. They have a lunchroom. And I say all this because like, you can literally work for a big company like that and not even meet someone new in the lunchroom every day, you know. Now on the flip side, I work for a company that maybe has 10 people, 11 people. It's just starting up, but they're doing great because they got this contract and a bunch more with the same big company. And like, the intimacy is a lot different. Like me and the owner of my company, we talk daily. We talk about, you know, we talked about how he missed Valentine's Day, you know, didn't get nothing for his wife until after. [00:29:09] Speaker B: Oh, shit, Valentine's Day. [00:29:17] Speaker A: Your facial expression, bro, I'm so glad. [00:29:21] Speaker B: You laughed at that because that was such a risk. If you had not laughed and I just interrupted your story with some horseshit, you would have hated my guts. [00:29:31] Speaker A: No, that was great. But like, the same with the churches, dude. I found, I find that when you go to smaller churches, you have that intimacy, you have that relationship, you have someone po into you. Where when you go to a bigger church, like. Yeah, you could literally meet someone new every service. [00:29:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And like they break off into small groups often. Most of those churches have some kind of small group, but it's still got some house people in it, dude. Like that's the size of. [00:29:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Some weekly house meeting that. And everybody seems to. Because there's a follow up service. Nobody's hanging around. Like, we did it at Master's plan. Everybody's like, gotta go make room for the next service, you know? [00:30:14] Speaker B: Yeah. And they back to back, dude. I mean, there's 20 minutes in between each service. It's nuts. It just doesn't foster community. [00:30:26] Speaker A: No fosters. Get in your car and make room. [00:30:28] Speaker B: Yeah, but that's not what it's for. Like, that's another problem is that they don't even like pretend that Sundays are for community. It's like that's what your community groups for. You do that on Tuesday night. [00:30:41] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. That's what I was told at the other church. I went to, they were like, oh well, you know, in order to cultivate the, the, the community, like we have home fellowships that take place during the week. Then you go to Those home fellowships, 40 people, you know, you got to deal with parents that don't discipline their kids. You know, their kids are screaming and stuff that calm down, calm down. And in my mind I'm like, we had home fellowship. We knew how to handle kids. Like you could sit up here and play, but you, you like understand we are doing something down there. Don't interrupt it, you know? Yeah, I don't know, man. [00:31:22] Speaker B: Yeah, what about. Shit. I mean so many of these large churches, the pastor ends up resigning in disgrace. What do you think about this culture of the, the church and the money and just all the things that go along with just running a church in the modern day in America. What do you think about that leads so many of these guys to fall. [00:31:58] Speaker A: The power and money? I mean honestly, like it was as someone that dabbled in ministry, if you will. I never fully committed to it, but I was in it, if you will. You know, with leading evangelism groups, with working with the youth, never officially a youth leader. There would be a lot of. Yeah, but there would be a lot of single moms or unhappy wives that would see a man who loves God, knows his Bible, loves, you know, love. He tried high five me. Loves. But like loves being around the youth in general and like has a good spirit about him and they think that's attractive. Now you add money to that. A successful pastor, it only takes, yeah, it only takes opportunity. It only takes one opportunity for someone to spark, you know, what if he's a sapiosexual pastor? What if intelligence or maybe he's demisexual and emotionally he gets attached to someone in that he works with every day. Again, we talked about work wives. As a pastor, you're working with a staff of God loving people that for the most part sometimes maybe aren't always open with what they're struggling with because you know, it's, it's, you know, you work at a church and everything's great. Maybe they are. Maybe that's how they can establish an emotional bond. Maybe he engages with a female on his staff who's intellectually, you know, stimulating and he's just like, wow, like I'm, I like this. And it takes one out, out of town trip, one conference, one whatever an opportunity peeps its head up and, and temptations there. I mean I think a lot of that is, you know, what, what happens to These guys, they. They. It's almost like. Like you said in Calvary Chapel, these mega churches. You are a celebrity in that mega church. Yeah, I mean, I'm seeing pastors on TikTok this. I. You know, I stopped because it was a Jordan shoe. And he's like, oh, I'm about to get these for my 45th birthday, and, ooh, I already got these ones. And so I'm like. And so I look at the name of the. Of the. Of the Tick Tocker or whatever it is, and his name is not your mama's pastor. And I'm like, okay. So I go to his profile. Dude's got gold chains, diamond pendants, you know, like, nice glass. I mean, he's just, like, fresh. And I'm just like, dude. So I'm starting to scroll through to see, like, are you giving anything that's edifying to your body? Like, are. Are you sharing anything on your TikTok? Are you just showing off your riches? And I see so many more pastors showing off their riches, which really shows the intent of their heart. And that's why I think someone like Francis Chan was so such an outlier, because he was not doing the norm with, you know, like, Rick Warren and, I mean, that Kenneth Copeland and all these other guys that got all this money and fame and, like, now they're the authority because not only do they have the biblical knowledge, but they are somewhat of a celebrity, you know, I think. I think they get tainted by that. I really do. [00:35:35] Speaker B: Yeah, but is it just the power that makes women want to sleep with these guys? Because, like, no, dude, it's. [00:35:44] Speaker A: It's being a godly man. I mean, it's. It's the. [00:35:47] Speaker B: Is it. [00:35:47] Speaker A: No, I mean, well, they're not godly once they sleep with them, but, yeah, that's the thing. [00:35:53] Speaker B: Like, why. Why does that turn you on in a weird, like. Like, I don't know. Let's just say. [00:35:58] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:35:59] Speaker B: Just pick a random example. Let's say you're a fat Japanese guy. Why the fuck would anyone, like, find themselves falling into bed with you? It's just weird. Like, it's got to just be the authority. [00:36:13] Speaker A: No, man, it's. It's. Honestly, I think that fascination of this is a godly man, and I don't think they go into it with the intent to ruin his marriage. I don't think. I don't think really expected her husband to leave her. But at the same time, you let. You have. Let's say you have a congregation of 500. You don't think there's at least 10 women in that congregation that are just like, man, I love that pastor. Like, man, like, was such a godly man, you know, you don't think that was a thought. And then, I mean, no offense against, but, you know, I'm pretty sure has to wake up every morning and tell himself, like, well, at least she's a godly woman. I mean, you know, it's not hard to get better. [00:37:03] Speaker B: Personally, I think she was the better looking of the two. [00:37:06] Speaker A: Okay. But, you know, I don't know situations, you know, I don't know how their marriage is. Again, it only takes, like, opportunity. They could have had a huge argument about him hanging out with and going down to Mexico so much, and then he was like, whatever. And then next day runs into this girl and she's just like, man, I let you go anytime and I go with you. And you know, like, it's this, it's, it's, it's what's being sold. I mean, you know, like, I know a married couple where the husband wanted to move to the southern states because, you know, he just loved the south and, you know, wanted to find himself a southern belle who was just sold out for Christ. And although his wife was a believer, she was high maintenance. You know, when we went on mission trips, she took five, six, seven bags. You know, she had to curl her hair before she got out of the tent. Like, it, she was just high maintenance. And so there was just two conflict, two conflicting kind of personalities. He ended up kind of getting emotionally connected to a younger female in our congregation over the summer. Boy, it might have been winter, but I'm pretty sure it was summer. [00:38:27] Speaker B: Maybe even autumn. [00:38:32] Speaker A: So, I mean, like, it happens, you know, we're, we're just because people are pastors, just because they're in a leadership position, maybe a godly leadership position, it doesn't remove the fact that they're man and they struggle with temptation and sin. [00:38:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:38:58] Speaker A: So that's like saying you are you. You arrived. What's that? [00:39:03] Speaker B: You go ahead. [00:39:04] Speaker A: Well, you said something about money. I would, I would say out of that category of money. [00:39:10] Speaker B: No, what I was going to say is, so, like, we've talked about money, we talked about 501C3s and like raising millions of dollars when so many people are in need in your congregation. Very likely. Although I'm sure they don't have data on that to be fair. Ideally, what do you think money looks like in the church? Because, I mean, we do see Paul taking up offerings and doing things with money. So like, how do we actually practice? [00:39:39] Speaker A: I think what Paul does, I think what James preaches go hand in hand. One of the best church churches I belong to was J. Warner Wallace, who was Jim Wallace at the time. Yeah, the Rising Tide. They took all their money because he was a full time detective. Didn't need the income, but we still took tithes. And what we did with those tithes is kind of the same thing I did when I would go to Utah. I would raise money for material and do work for free on people's houses that I wanted to talk to and witness to. And so I would take down college kids and I would teach college kids how to do handyman stuff while we shared the gospel with the LDS homeowner. And so Rising Tide did the same thing. They would put their ear to the ground. They would talk to friends and co workers and find out who single, who was a single mom or a widow that had a need, whether it was home repair or school supplies for their kids. And that's exactly what we did. We dedicated one Saturday a month to going and working on a single mom or a widow's home. And we bought all the material that we needed with our tithes and offering because that's what James says true religion is taking care of the widows and the orphans. You know, and it's funny because Isaiah 1 talks about the very same thing. It talks about taking care of widows and orphans. [00:41:24] Speaker B: Do you, do you have a problem with pastors taking a salary? [00:41:32] Speaker A: I don't. I just know that if when I had, when I had originally wanted to start a home church in Utah, when we were like gonna move from that place in Laguna to Utah, I wanted to have a full time job so that I didn't have to take a salary. I wanted to do the Rising Tide kind of. I don't know what you'd call, but I wanted to basically mimic their, their style of church, their model. Yeah, I wanted to mimic their model. So. But I'm not against it. I know that there, there comes. But at the same time, like I know the time that goes into studying for a sermon. I had to do sermons all the time for school of ministry. I still did it with a full time job and full time school. So at the same time, like I get it, paying a pastor his wages for taking care of the congregation. I just don't think that's what they're spending most their time on during the week. I don't think that's what they're doing. I think they're looking more at church. All these, these things that they've purchased in the church and making sure that church still runs smoothly. I mean, you're just creating more work for yourself by building on other. You know, I guarantee you he has a hand in the build of his new building, the negotiations, the architectural prints, what it looks like, what, what material goes in there, that stuff that has to be dedicated time to. It's not just like, oh, okay, no, you pick. No, it's like he has a certain vision and he wants to, you know, he wants to be a part of that. Then, you know, he's also got to make sure that things are getting taken care of as far as permits and keeping those permits fresh and, you know, working with whatever they're trying to do with the city. I know there's so much more into today's pastor than there was in biblical times. And I don't think it's for a positive. I'm not saying it's all for negative, but if I looked at a biblical time church like in the book of Acts, and they're dealing with government entities. They're dealing with government entities over a couple things. To me, this is just my opinion, in my view, if they were, because we don't have really any record, like any account of them, like dealing with government entities on a regular basis, I believe they would probably be trying to figure out, like. Chris Meerat out of Journey Community Church in Fontana. He works with the mayor, closely with his. With Fontana's mayor to provide a. Like, to actually reach the community for Christ. Like, he's not out there trying to just, you know, put on a show or, you know, be busy or, you know, get more people. He's like, hey, like, we want to host this event. You know, we want to try and bring people to Christ. We want to host an event for free, give out free food, free school supplies in our community on this day. Like, what, What? You know, how could you help us? You know, I. I don't know, man. I just. I just, I don't see. I'm not saying every church is like that, but I'm looking at mega church pastors. I doubt Rick Warren's studying six days a week on the word of God for a sermon. I'm sure he reads it every day. I'm sure he spends time and builds a sermon. But I also am pretty sure he's doing another podcast. He's meeting with certain people, you know, I don't know, you know, maybe writing Another book? I don't know. I just. [00:45:13] Speaker B: I just don't see spending time with his son. [00:45:17] Speaker A: Oh, I was cold. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I. I don't. I see that most these pastors create more work. And by the way, Saddleback, Imagine being the head passer of Saddleback. I'm sure you have a lot of people under you that handle a lot of stuff, but. But you also have a lot of people reporting to you that all that stuff is getting accomplished. [00:45:46] Speaker B: It sounds like a nightmare. Just imagine the meetings. Oh, that makes me so bored. I want to punch something. [00:45:54] Speaker A: And imagine the meetings. Imagine how many meetings take place at a church, a mega church. [00:46:01] Speaker B: I mean, even if you're just meeting with the heads of the departments, that's a full week of meetings that then. [00:46:10] Speaker A: You'Re ordering lunch and writing it off just so you guys can sit around, talk about. I don't know, dude. I don't know. I just. All of it just kind of bothers me where it's like, why can't you guys just do church? Just do church. Why the big building? Why all the amenities? You know, why the coffee shop and the shirts and the whole, you know, line of clothing? Why? [00:46:37] Speaker B: Have you ever seen that south park episode about Walmart? [00:46:42] Speaker A: No, I don't watch a lot of South Park. [00:46:45] Speaker B: It's the smartest show that's ever existed. But they have a Walmart come to town because it's a small town, and it turns out that the Walmart is like a hive mind. It's, like, possessed. And it, like, brings people, like, it, like, makes people want to shop at it and it, like, brainwashes them to love Walmart. And so they can't stop shopping at Walmart, but they eventually realize, like, oh, no, we're under some kind of control. And they destroy Walmart. And when it first came to town, all the other businesses closed because everyone could get what they needed at Walmart. So Jim's Drugs specifically closes down, and it's a small little drugstore. So after they burn down Walmart, they're singing Kumbaya as Walmart burns and they go, all right, let's. Let's just shop at Jim's Drugs from now on. We're not gonna let this get out of hand. That shows Jim's Drugs reopens, and it's a montage of, like, everyone shopping there, and there's a line around the block, and then the building gets a little bigger, and then it's a little bigger, and then sure enough, it's the size of Walmart and then it's on fire again and they're all singing KOOP by it and they're like, okay, let's not let that happen months ago. So it's just like this cycle of like. Yeah. Saddleback started out as a small church, one that we probably would have liked kind of. I don't know if we ever really would have gelled with the teaching, but like, you know, it was a small church out of Trabuchill Hills High School, which Calvary was once out of Trabuco Hills High School. Reverence was once out of Trabuco Hills High School. Like so many churches have started out of there and not gone on to be Saddleback. But it, it, if there's a personality, if there's money, it just becomes this behemoth. And, and I think there's also a danger in having like a personality based organization like that because it falls apart as soon as that guy's out of the picture. If that guy falls or if that guy dies or, or anything, then, you know, look what happened after Chuck. What? [00:48:57] Speaker A: The Mormon Church, after Joseph Smith died, there was a split with Brigham Young as Joseph Smith Jr. Now you have the Latter Day Saints and the fundamentalist Latter Day Saints. [00:49:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And. And I mean, I think. [00:49:13] Speaker A: Has Chuck died yet? [00:49:15] Speaker B: Chuck? Yeah, Chuck died while you were in school of ministry, I think. [00:49:22] Speaker A: No, before. [00:49:24] Speaker B: No, he died before he died. [00:49:25] Speaker A: No, he did not, bro. [00:49:29] Speaker B: No, I was there the morning he died. He died in. No, no, I remember it was my parents anniversary. 2013. It was October 3, 2013. He died. [00:49:40] Speaker A: So when did I go to school ministry? [00:49:42] Speaker B: 2014-16, I think. [00:49:49] Speaker A: Nah, dog, Chuck was alive when I was at school ministry, dude. [00:49:52] Speaker B: Maybe 2013 to 2015. [00:49:57] Speaker A: Chuck died. 2013? [00:49:59] Speaker B: Yes. For sure. Let's Google it. Did you see the movie? [00:50:06] Speaker A: No, I didn't see. [00:50:08] Speaker B: Do I have a memory or what? October 3rd, 2013, dude. [00:50:13] Speaker A: Really? [00:50:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:14] Speaker A: So he must have been dead before I went to school of ministry, I thought so. [00:50:17] Speaker B: I couldn't remember if you started the same year I started school of worship or if you started the year after me, but I think it was the. [00:50:23] Speaker A: Year I think I started. The year after you? [00:50:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:27] Speaker A: Wow. [00:50:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. But like that place has had some kind of a split in their network and it just seemed like it never really was as strong under Brian as it was under Chuck because people just. [00:50:45] Speaker A: That's right. Brian Broderson took over. That's right. Yeah. The son in law. Mm. [00:50:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Good teacher. I Liked him. [00:50:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I don't have a lot of bad things to say about the Calvary, except for, like, you know, they were a little dogmatic in their ways. You know, like, they saw a cigar sitting on my desk one day because I worked for that company that had a lot of Calvary. I wouldn't say pastors, but they were like people who served at their local Calvary. But, like, they would walk my dip by my desk and be like, oh, there's gonna be a lot of that in hell. A lot of cigar smoking in hell. I'm like, all right, well, looks like that's where I'm going, because I smoked cigars. [00:51:33] Speaker B: You're making me take another look at hell. [00:51:37] Speaker A: Yeah, you're definitely not pushing me away from it. [00:51:41] Speaker B: Well, Chuck used to say, if you won't go to hell for smoking, you'll just smell like you've been there. Just like. Okay, that's great. That's just a great old guy thing to say. Love it ironically. Oh, this is something. Love to point out he was super legalistic about smoking. Died of emphysema. [00:52:04] Speaker A: Really? [00:52:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Dude never smoked, died of emphysema. Makes you wonder if God wasn't making a point with that one. Yeah, I mean, I could talk about Calvary. You know, here's my big criticism of Calvary is they teach you very well to, to love the Bible and to study the Bible. And then they revile you for the things that you learn once you start studying it. The conclusions. Sorry, I couldn't think of that word. They revile you for the conclusions that you make. So you start to look into the issue of free will and soteriology. And if you study the Bible well, you're going to end up a Calvinist. And now they hate you because you're a Calvinist. And then you start to look into the end times, and you see nothing they teach about the end times is in the Bible. Now they hate you because you're some liberal amillennialist or whatever, or post millennialist, if you're right. [00:53:08] Speaker A: But yeah, yeah, I thought they were. I, I, I, I, I had a love for Calvary, man. I just, I just can't get past, like, the. I don't know, I just feel like you're being looked down upon. [00:53:28] Speaker B: Yeah, they had a problem with legalism. Just, you know, it was, it was worse in our Calvary than it was in most of the other calvaries, but it was everywhere. Every Calvary had that problem. Yeah, we definitely had worst. I mean, there Might have been Calvaries that were worse than ours. But, like, as far as my. I've been to a lot of Calvary's in my life, and we had the worst of legalism and the worst of, like, the spiritual gifts and, like, shoving that down people's throats. Yeah. [00:54:03] Speaker A: And I've realized, like, some of the Calvary's I went to, like, the congregation was just old. [00:54:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Personality. Yeah, yeah, they were. Oh, geez. [00:54:16] Speaker A: Yeah, they were just old people. And you're just kind of like, man, like, I don't connect here. It's solid. Teaching is as far as, like, verse upon verse, book by book, precept upon precept. I like that. I don't know, man. Yeah. Yeah. Just bad taste in my mouth. [00:54:34] Speaker B: Yeah. So I know some ladies who had some bad taste in their mouths at Calvary. I do what I can, man. [00:54:52] Speaker A: I like it. I like it. [00:54:55] Speaker B: What else? [00:54:55] Speaker A: I do wanna. I. I do wanna. I do want to visit. You're cutting off friends? Like, have you cut off friends. [00:55:09] Speaker B: Because of sin? [00:55:12] Speaker A: No, just in general, man. Like, you texted me the cutting off of friends, and I'm like, that's not a bad topic. Because with cutting off of friends, you know, there's definitely, like, boundaries. You know, Like, I tell my daughters, like, you don't have to accept what someone does to you. You can have healthy boundaries with them, you know, like, my parents aren't the greatest, but they're not the worst. And so, like, with my parents, like, I have boundaries. Like, my mom literally lives right across the street from me. Not right across, but, like, less than half a mile, you know, like, she's right across the main street in the. The other neighborhood. But because she has Jay's mom living with her, I don't go visit her. And I told. I told her, like, I'll never come to your house when that lady while. While she lives there. Things she tried to. Yeah. [00:56:16] Speaker B: No. [00:56:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:18] Speaker B: Really? I didn't know. Huh? Yeah. [00:56:24] Speaker A: Yeah, she moved out here last month to take over my sister's rent so my sister can move in with her boyfriend. [00:56:31] Speaker B: Oh, so she just moved into your sister's old place? [00:56:34] Speaker A: Yeah, my sister bought a place. Didn't want to sell it, didn't want to rent it out, so she just. [00:56:38] Speaker B: Was she still in Orange County? [00:56:41] Speaker A: She was until last month, yeah. [00:56:44] Speaker B: Okay, so the whole clan is kind of making their way out there. [00:56:49] Speaker A: No, no. Dad ended up. Dad can't live with. So he's traveling, and my sisters are. [00:56:57] Speaker B: You know, they're your parents together. [00:57:02] Speaker A: No, not. Yeah. I mean, they're a weird story, bro, because, like, I think they've been married two or three times to each other. In between. Other marriage. After. You know, after. In between other marriages. They weren't living together until my dad. My dad lived in Washington. My mom lived in Irvine. My dad had a stroke, went to the hospital, ended up moving into my older sister's house while he rehabbed, like, did physical therapy or whatever. And then my mom ended up moving there to help out, and then they ended up getting a place together in Irvine, but separate rooms, and, like, one moved in. It was just like. He was like, I can't live with that. That. That girl. [00:57:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:47] Speaker A: And my mom is just like, every time my dad talks after a stroke, she's like, I don't know what you're saying. I don't speak stroke. Like, use your words, you know? Like, she. Yeah, it's. They're just like, back and forth, and he's just miserable, you know, he just wants to watch TV and retire, you know, and, you know, he can't really retire and afford anything, so he's got to, you know, pick up some type of work. But he's. You know, he stroked out, so it's not like he could pick up, like, you know, he used to be a superintendent. Now he's a. A bag boy, you know, at Ralph's. [00:58:19] Speaker B: Oh, that sucks, dude. How old's your dad? He's. He's younger than my dad, right? [00:58:25] Speaker A: My dad's like, 65, 66. [00:58:28] Speaker B: Shit, that's crazy. My dad's gonna be 73. [00:58:33] Speaker A: Your dad's gonna be 73 this May. No shit. [00:58:36] Speaker B: Yeah, dude. [00:58:37] Speaker A: Your dad looks great for. [00:58:39] Speaker B: When's the last time you saw him? [00:58:41] Speaker A: In his 60s, and I thought he was in his 50s. [00:58:44] Speaker B: Yeah, he retired just a few months after you left California. He retired and it hit him hard. Like, he's not physically where he used to be. I mean, it was only six, seven years ago, but mentally, he's fucking out to lunch. But he always was, but it's a lot worse. Way grayer hair. It's weird. It's weird to see him like that. But he still doesn't seem 73. He still seems much younger than that. [00:59:17] Speaker A: But, like, he's a spunky. Spunky cat. [00:59:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. As far as, like, cutting people off, one. One person who comes to mind, I never had, like, a. There's people I ghosted. That's really it. Like, the. The other side of the coin from what I said about loyalty and, like, I'VE got my people, and they're my ride or die. And, like, I just can't see me ever having a falling out with you. Like, would have to get pretty crazy for you and I to have any sort of a problem. But on the other side of that, there's people that I just don't have that love for. Like, I didn't choose the love for who I have it for. And, like, Abel and are a couple of those guys. Abel I don't speak to. I never cut him off fully. But, like, the last time I saw him on FaceTime, because he was at house while I was talking to. It was just like, dude, it took 30 seconds for me to be over talking to him. I was just like, dude, this guy sucks. Get him off the face time. I'm so sick of this guy. He just came in with such an energy of, like, he was just pissed off and stressed and like, what are you doing? I'm going outside for a cigarette. This is boring. What are we doing? And just like, dude, you have always sucked. It's crazy. Lighten up. You're gonna die soon. Didn't have a. I just haven't talked to him in a while. Like, he just. He keeps getting weird with me. He keeps cutting me off. And then when he apologizes, I'm just like, whatever, because I've just, like, not taken it that seriously. But we haven't talked in weeks at this point. He. I got a vibe from him that he was not thrilled with me last time we talked, but I didn't really care to ask what was up. I just sort of left it there. But, yeah, I'm trying to think, dad. [01:01:25] Speaker A: You have any, you know my issue with this? He doesn't have any principles that he walks by me. [01:01:31] Speaker B: Think about that. Principles. Yeah. [01:01:34] Speaker A: Nothing. [01:01:35] Speaker B: Nothing is screaming out to me that you're wrong about that. Give me an example. [01:01:42] Speaker A: I think that's my issue with him. It's. Well, you know, for instance, with the divorce. You know, he calls me and he's like, oh, you know, like, number. Number two's doing coke. And, you know, you should call on the podcast. Yeah. And, you know, the. The fact that my ex was hitting on him and made him feel uncomfortable and always asked, and then like, turns around and calls her and. And tells her I said all this. And I'm just like, dude, you, like. Like the fact that you just. You just want, like, you'll do anything for people to like you. Like, you just want. You just want to be liked, and therefore you lack principle like, you'll say whatever you need to say. You'll do whatever you need to do for people for you to fit in and be liked. You won't stand up and say, no, that's fucking wrong. You might not like it. You might be quiet, you might shut down, but you don't ever voice it in the sense of, like, I don't care for what you're doing. I don't want to associate with that. Yeah, I don't know. I just don't. I just never seen him as a man of principle raising him, of someone who just didn't want to be around certain things and therefore did not allow it. He would allow it and then about it. [01:02:58] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe I'll cut this out because this is pretty gnarly. But he. He complains about his kids, and it kind of bugs me. He was. He was talking about. I think it was his third. I think it was his third kid who's, like, already old enough to talk, which is weird. But he was talking to me on the phone in front front of this kid about, like, how depressed he was when she got pregnant with her and, like, just mentally, like, what a hard time he was having and stuff. And I didn't know the kid was in the room until he stopped, and he goes, yeah, you. I was having a hard time with you. This kid's like 3 years old. And so I was like, dude, like, kids are awesome. Like, I mean, I think was pregnant at the time, so I was, you know, just. I didn't know. I was just like. So, I mean, like, don't you want more kids? Like, three. Three's fine. Like, you want one more? Like, come on, like, let's do it. And he was just like, no, dude. Like, I couldn't handle a fourth kid right now on my salary and everything. And I was like, okay, so what if it happened? What if she got pregnant? Like, you wouldn't be stoked. And he's like. He's like, I'm pretty sure I would force her to have an abortion if she got pregnant again. At this point, I was like, holy, dude. Like, dude, he's. [01:04:26] Speaker A: He's honestly all about making life easier for himself. [01:04:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, kind of. [01:04:30] Speaker A: He really is. [01:04:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:32] Speaker A: Like, that's one thing that really pissed me off is that he took seven weeks off on my dime and was like, well, I just worked. And I'm like, dude, I've been raising kids from the seventh grade on, bro. I haven't had one real vacation. What the are you doing? You know, like, you've You've worked since you were 17 at McDonald's. Like, come on, bro. Like, hey, hey, get out of here. [01:04:55] Speaker B: Nine Cent Store. Oh, by the way. [01:04:57] Speaker A: That's right. He did work there too. [01:05:00] Speaker B: Had the funny dude was such an. I loved it so much because I loved both of them. But, like, I had to play both sides of that because would just say the gnarliest, most inappropriate things to him. But he said, why? Why do they have a scanner at 99 cent store? Why don't they just have a big red button that you hit for every item and then try to explain. [01:05:33] Speaker A: Do you know why? Do you know why? I think he was so depressed. When? When? During his third. Third pregnancy. [01:05:41] Speaker B: Okay, that would have been around the time he was living with you guys, right? [01:05:45] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:05:47] Speaker B: Why? [01:05:49] Speaker A: He had an only. Like, an only fans. She was talking to dudes about. Yeah, about. He hacked her computer and found her having inappropriate conversations about, like, crazy sexual stuff. And he couldn't. He could not meet the. Like, he. He's so missionary. That leather and whips was out. Like, was just out for him, dude. Like, out. And she was talking about, like, hurt me kind of shit. And. Yeah. And he. Yeah, well, missionary with her. Like, come on, bro. Like, no matter which way you slice that bread, dude, it's so. So, yeah. [01:06:40] Speaker B: He was like, she keeps her mouth shut. It's fine. [01:06:45] Speaker A: You knew exactly where I was going with that. Yeah, snaggletooth. Yeah, he. He, like, he. He felt so defeated at that moment. [01:06:58] Speaker B: I'm going to tell you. And yeah, again, I feel bad, but, like, maybe I'll cut this out. I don't know. But here's how crazy it is that I didn't know that because we specifically. [01:07:11] Speaker A: Real quick, by the way, you're welcome to keep all mine in. I don't really give a shit. [01:07:14] Speaker B: Okay, I know. I know you don't. Here's how crazy it was that I didn't know that. We specifically had a conversation about them having trust issues. And he said that either right before they got married or right after she kissed some guy and he found out about it and that's all. It was just a kiss. And then she found that he had subscribed to an OnlyFans and he fully admitted in the conversation, he was like, yeah, that wasn't cool. I shouldn't have done that. She had a right to be upset. All stuff. This is. Well after the time period you're talking about, and he chose you. [01:07:58] Speaker A: Him doing the only fans was a retaliation for what he found on her computer. [01:08:02] Speaker B: That's fucking nuts. That's fucking nuts. Cuz like he chose to leave that out. Why the fuck would you leave that out? Like, is that not relevant to the conversation we're having when you're talking about trust? [01:08:14] Speaker A: Yeah, relevant. [01:08:17] Speaker B: That's crazy, dude. I wonder why he didn't trust me with that. [01:08:22] Speaker A: He's probably embarrassed about it, dude. [01:08:24] Speaker B: Yeah, okay, that's fair. [01:08:27] Speaker A: I mean, I'd be embarrassed if, if my wife was talking about sexual fantasies that, I mean, again, I'm only doing missionary. Maybe, maybe every now and then I'm getting a little freaky and doing a little doggy style, but for the most part I stick to the mission. Yeah, I'd be a little embarrassed if my, my wife is talking about whips and leather and chains, you know, like, like wanting to be tied up type stuff and you know, oh, here I am coming with just. That's psycho Milk and baloney. No, milk and baloney. [01:08:58] Speaker B: Milk shooting from baloney. [01:09:01] Speaker A: Yeah, dude, I'm telling you, man, I serve it up. I, you know, like. [01:09:09] Speaker B: Are you into that stuff? [01:09:11] Speaker A: I'm into everything, bro. Like, yeah, I mean like if, if you meet me, you don't like my personality, but we end up engaging, you'll love me. Afterwards you'll be like, I don't like the guy, but I love him, you know. No, I'm, I'm very much in, like I've watched, I've watched videos because there's certain videos, like the, there's a, like a five part series on how to. Because every girl squirts. How to make any girl squirt. I watch those types of videos, like, because I want to know what's going on in there. Like when I'm in there, it's like my brain goes in there, you know, I mean like I feel around, I'm like, oh, I feel that. And she's making a sound when I, every time I touch that. So now what I'm going to do is I'm going to go and in circular motion as I go, you know, I'm not just going to go back and forth. I'm going circular motion. Never really sideways motion, but definitely like a steamboat, you know, or a train. I'm going in a circular motion. Like I'm something, you know, I mean like, you know, like, like I, I go in circles. When I'm down there, I've never had a problem finding the bean. So when I'm down there, I, you know, having some pie, it's, it's like, you Know, I. I'm. I'm. I got some tricks, you know, where. Where. You know, so it's like, again, when we might not. We might not jive, personality wise, but you're definitely gonna want to call me back. [01:10:47] Speaker B: All right, I've never. [01:10:50] Speaker A: But again, I'm at that. I'm at that stage where I don't. This. That's not what I'm about. You know, Like, I don't want that. I want someone that I can have a ride or die. I don't want a chick that's just in it for the sex because she's gonna leave for the next dude that. That gives her something else, you know? [01:11:04] Speaker B: Yeah. I've never understood the. The whips and the chains and stuff myself. [01:11:11] Speaker A: And, you know, a nice little wapa. It's kind of nice. All right, you're going full. You go. You go full fledge on me. There's a good chance I'm gonna turn around and smack you. You know, like, you give me a good Indiana Jones. [01:11:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:31] Speaker A: And. Yeah, you're gonna get the temple across. Yeah. [01:11:38] Speaker B: You know, it's a collar on. [01:11:42] Speaker A: It's similar to wax. You know, when you pour wax on someone, there's like a millisecond of like, oh. And then it's just like, oh. Like, it's. It's. It's. Wax isn't as bad as it may sound. Like once it hits your skin, it dries almost instantaneously. Blindfolds are fun. [01:12:04] Speaker B: No, don't like that. I. [01:12:07] Speaker A: Little whips are. [01:12:08] Speaker B: I'm learning in this conversation how little I trust women. [01:12:13] Speaker A: So blindfold your lady and tired of the bed. And then just kind of take your time with it. It's. It's fun, you know, it's entertain. It's. It's. It's enticing for her because she doesn't. You. You realize how heightened your senses are everywhere else when you can't see what's going on. You know, trying to feel if that's a feather or is that, you know, part of the whip, you know, that's. That's caressing the leg, you know? And again, I go with like, the little six, eight inch whips. Yeah. Like, like. And there's multiple ends to it. I don't know what it's called, but, you know, it's like six leather strips that kind of come out here, and when you smack their, you know, smack their butt with it or whatever, it's not hard. It's kind of like, ooh, okay. It's like when a Girl kind of bites you to leave a hickey versus the chick that bites you to leave a mark, like, with her teeth. And you're just like. Like, there's that. There's that jumping you where you're like. Like, okay. Like, you went past pleasure. You went into, like, do that again. Do that again, and this whole shit will be off. You know what I mean? [01:13:23] Speaker B: Have you ever found yourself making that threat and then realizing, like, okay, I'm not actually gonna hit her, so, like, please, God, don't do that again because I either have to follow through on this threat or I have to look like a bitch. [01:13:41] Speaker A: No, I have had it where I do the. Mmm. Like, audibly. And I'm like, mmm. And I'm like. Like, I'm not gonna threaten you, but I'm gonna let you know. I have had chicks. I dated a chick once, and we were hanging out one night, and this is like, our first time having sex. And she's like, have you ever choked a chick? And I'm like, oh, yeah. Like, who doesn't choke during sex? She's like, show me how you choke. So, like, I do it, and I know where this is going. You know what I mean? Like, anything we talk about, anything sexual, we. We're having sex. [01:14:25] Speaker B: Don't get me wrong, just cuts to you with a dead body, and you're like, oh, my God, I killed her. I know where this is going. [01:14:31] Speaker A: So, dude, he's still hearing me out. So I go to. I show her how I choke, and she's like, no, no, no, don't do it like that. Do like this. And she puts my. She reposition into my hands. She's like, now push. So we start getting it on, and she's like, smack me. And while I'm choking her, and I'm like, okay, so, you know, smack, you know, kind of light, kind of hard, but not. Not. She's like, harder. So I pick it up a little bit. She says, harder. I said, look, I don't feel comfortable with this. You know, this is like one of the only times. Insects. Where I had to stop and say, I don't feel comfortable with this. And she was like, why not? I said, because I just don't. Like, I. I'm. If I smack you hard, you're gonna have some marks. Like, I'm not. I'm. I don't want. I don't want to do this. Like, I just don't. I don't want to choke you. [01:15:22] Speaker B: That is a slam dunk for the cops. [01:15:25] Speaker A: Oh, dude. So what does she do? She starts slapping the shit out of herself. Like, smack, smack. And I'm like, holy crap. Next day, I go. I go straight. Like, lawyer mode. Hey, let's talk about last night in text. You know, I'm texting like, hey, sorry. I didn't want to choke you or slap you last night. It's okay. I just get off on that. [01:15:54] Speaker B: Oh, thank God. Okay, there we go. Yes. We wrap it up. Yeah. Take that coffee to go. We got it. [01:16:03] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I was like, dude, it was. It was. It was. It was such an awkward thing. Like, I stopped seeing her because every time we would engage sexually, she would smack herself, like, over and over and over. And I was just like, this is weird. I'm talking about things like, for sure that. And when you don't have custody of your kids and you're the mom, it's always weird to me. [01:16:31] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a story. There's a story there. [01:16:35] Speaker A: And when you still live with your ex boyfriend and don't have a car, I mean, what are we doing with ourselves? [01:16:41] Speaker B: You excused a lot of things leading up to that slap. No, I was talking. I was talking even out of bed. Just. I find myself luckily, you know, I don't have to do that with my wife. But, like, I on many occasions have found myself like, hey, do that one more time, I'm gonna fracture your fucking eye socket. And then I have to think, oh, God, please don't do it again, because if you do, I either have to do that or I have to not do that. [01:17:18] Speaker A: So give me an instance where that happened. [01:17:21] Speaker B: It's funny that you said biting the shoulder. That literally happened. So I was on a date, and it was two of us. And then over at this other table, it was basically empty, but this one other table, there was two guys and two girls, and they were kind of loud. They were having a good time. I go to the bathroom. I come back from the bathroom. She's sitting at their table with them, and I'm like, great, now I got to be a part of this, you know, this friend group in their late 30s. Great. So that wasn't really relevant to the story, but it was funny. She. I don't know. She says something. [01:17:58] Speaker A: Definitely paints the picture of who she is. [01:18:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:00] Speaker B: Okay. That. That's what I wanted. She's crazy. So something. I said something as a joke, and the whole table, like, groaned. Like, they thought it was funny, but they groaned. You know, it was that kind of thing. Like, ooh, he said it. And then she fucking Bite bit me on the shoulder, and I think I said, I'll cave your skull. And if you do that again, I can't remember exactly what I said. It was a little over the top, little cartoonish for the moment. And then I just. I literally was just like, oh, please. Like, inside, I was like, please, God. Please, God, don't bite my shoulder again, because I can't back down in front of these men who are trying to size me up. These strange men who have to decide whether I'm a physical threat to them if I don't follow through on this. [01:18:49] Speaker A: Threat or a physical threat to her. [01:18:53] Speaker B: If I don't follow through on this threat, then they'll know they can beat me up, and I can't have that. [01:19:00] Speaker A: Did she bite you again? [01:19:02] Speaker B: No, thankfully. [01:19:03] Speaker A: Oh, good for you. [01:19:06] Speaker B: Surprised by that. Those guys bought us shots of rumors, which was cool of them. It ended up okay. But, yeah, I'm not that outgoing. [01:19:23] Speaker A: So. All right, as we bring this one to a close, what do you think we should talk about next week? [01:19:35] Speaker B: I was looking into peaceful parenting, and I'm interested by it, but I obviously have a lot of questions, and you've raised a kid or two, so who better to ask about discipline? [01:19:53] Speaker A: Peaceful parenting? [01:19:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:19:57] Speaker A: All right, well, I got a starter for that one, so. [01:20:02] Speaker B: A starter? [01:20:03] Speaker A: You know, yeah, I'm gonna save it for next week. I don't want to say it right. [01:20:06] Speaker B: Now, but, dude, even I feel the suspense. We can probably get into it more next week, but it was just a video that came up. I mean, I've heard about peaceful parenting forever and the way it's always. [01:20:24] Speaker A: I've never heard about it. I've never heard about it till you text me about it. [01:20:27] Speaker B: Ah, yeah. So I've kind of heard about it, but never really, like, dug into what it is. Like, I've always been of the opinion that, like, yeah, I'm going to spank my kids, and it shouldn't be very often, you know, like, it's. It's going to be few and far between. And then I heard this guy, Stefan Molyneux, who I was already a fan of. He's like, a political commentator, but he got me, dude. [01:20:54] Speaker A: He. [01:20:54] Speaker B: He presented it completely as, like, a libertarian, anarchist argument, and then just presented his whole thing on, like, why we should not hit kids in any circumstance. And I'm not entirely convinced by it because I don't think that's what scripture says, but it certainly gave me a lot to think about, so it'll be fun to process that with you. [01:21:24] Speaker A: I like that. I like that. I did have a thought that slipped my mind is that I wanted to jot down about peaceful parenting. You said you had done it a lot, but anyhow, I did come to mind, but. All right. Peaceful parenting. You got it, man. We're on for that. [01:21:45] Speaker B: All right. I better. I better do my research. Be ready to defend myself, because I can tell you don't like it. [01:21:55] Speaker A: I'm not against it. I don't. Won't get into it now. [01:22:00] Speaker B: Save it. It'll be good. [01:22:02] Speaker A: Yeah, we'll save it. All right, man. All right. Good night from Flounder. And. [01:22:12] Speaker B: You were so upset to be Flounder. All right, well, I've been Sebastian, and this has been pseudonyms. [01:22:27] Speaker A: Yep. This has been love. [01:22:29] Speaker B: You guys have a great week.