43: Jetskis Cure Depression

[00:00:00] Speaker A: I fulfilled what has been a dream for probably 15 years. This one. [00:00:09] Speaker B: Yeah. You lost your Virginia. [00:00:11] Speaker A: Yeah, finally. I thought it would be before I had a kid, but. [00:00:19] Speaker B: Never happens. It does now. [00:00:22] Speaker A: Man, if the movies have taught us anything now. I bought a paddle board. [00:00:30] Speaker B: Really? [00:00:31] Speaker A: Yeah, but I haven't used it yet. There's something about. There's something about standing on the water that has always seemed like the coolest thing in the world to me. I don't know why. [00:00:44] Speaker B: I'm not gonna lie. I went for the first time this last. Last summer. [00:00:51] Speaker A: Hell, yeah. Was it fun? [00:00:53] Speaker B: I enjoyed it, dude. I'm not gonna lie. Not gonna lie. Enjoyed it. Yeah. [00:00:58] Speaker A: I heard that. It. It's hard on your core. [00:01:05] Speaker B: Depends on what you're doing. I sat down the whole time. [00:01:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. [00:01:09] Speaker B: I mean, that's what I'm gonna. The person I went with was doing, so I just followed suit. [00:01:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's probably easier. I'm gonna stick with that until I can figure out how to stand. But I've ski. I used to skateboard and stuff, so I'll probably be able to get up there relatively quickly. But. [00:01:32] Speaker B: All right. I do have. [00:01:33] Speaker A: It'd be hilarious if I just never could. [00:01:35] Speaker B: I have an order of business. I have to address some things. First of all, this seems. [00:01:44] Speaker A: Number one. [00:01:45] Speaker B: Number one pays for her own Spotify. [00:01:49] Speaker A: You already said that. [00:01:51] Speaker B: Did I? [00:01:52] Speaker A: Is this. Is this a big thing? [00:01:54] Speaker B: Well, no, but I have another one as well that I got to kind of do. Was it me, Rico Suave, who shall now be called El Padre? El Padre is actually the same height as me now. He probably thinks he's a little taller. We're very similar in height. Let's just say that. Okay, let's just say that. Let's leave it at that. [00:02:20] Speaker A: He probably is a little vaguely remember. I vaguely remember a comment about his height, but I don't even know what this is referencing. [00:02:28] Speaker B: Well, he vividly remembers, so. [00:02:31] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I bet. [00:02:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:34] Speaker A: By the way, I want to compliment your intelligence right now because you just did something that very few people do. You pronounced height correctly, which blows my mind, because how do normal. [00:02:52] Speaker B: How does everybody else say it? [00:02:54] Speaker A: Height with an h at the end. Yeah. So I noticed this because there was a worship song at my last church that I think it said depth, and I don't know, it said depth, width, and height. And the worship singer would say height. He, like, pronounced it that way. But I noticed on the screen it wasn't spelled that way. So I looked it up, and they have different word origins, length, depth, height, are all, like, from different languages. So even though they seem like they all should go together and be uniform, they're not. [00:03:34] Speaker B: Huh? Yeah. Crazy. [00:03:41] Speaker A: Well, so there's that. [00:03:43] Speaker B: There's that, exactly. Yeah. So I try to correct that. I mean, I saw him the Monday after our last podcast, and let's just say, boy wasn't happy. [00:04:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I would. I would say, like, I'm not the tallest guy, but, like, if. If you said I was, like, 5 11, I'd have to correct that. Like, that's. That's far enough off that I would have to be. [00:04:17] Speaker B: For sure. [00:04:18] Speaker A: Hey, easy six one. All right. [00:04:23] Speaker B: So, yeah, that's. That's. I just had to make those corrections. We're good now. [00:04:26] Speaker A: Okay. I thought after the sensitive topic of last week that there might be a more serious thing you had to address. [00:04:36] Speaker B: What was the serious topic of last week? [00:04:39] Speaker A: We got all into number one story about the guy who's trying to screw his friend's wife. Hey, so couple things with that. First of all, I need an update because you followed him on Instagram. I need an update on what happened there. If there's one to give. [00:04:56] Speaker B: That's exactly what I was just about to do. So. [00:04:59] Speaker A: Okay, so we should do that. Unless. Unless it conflicts with this question. I'm gonna ask this question because I meant to ask it last week and I didn't get around to it. And I hope we don't just end up rehashing the whole story. But do you think there's any possibility that he was lying to number one and that something did happen between him and his friend's wife? [00:05:29] Speaker B: I think there's a. I think there's a chance. I think there's a good chance for sure. [00:05:34] Speaker A: So you're not saying a non zero chance just because it's possible. You're saying, like, you think there. There could be something to that? [00:05:43] Speaker B: I think there could be something to that for sure. I think. Oh, he makes it sound like he wouldn't. Maybe he wouldn't. But at the same time, if you didn't, why wouldn't you tell your buddy? Like. Like, are we kind of good, but not fully good? [00:06:01] Speaker A: Maybe he's afraid of what she might corroborate. [00:06:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:06:06] Speaker A: Interesting. Okay. Okay, so give me an update on the Instagram situation. [00:06:13] Speaker B: Okay, so she sent me a. In fact, when did we record? We recorded on the 13th, right? [00:06:26] Speaker A: Something like that. [00:06:27] Speaker B: Yeah. It was, like, the day before my birthday. On the day of my birthday. Apparently he's somewhere else, but he Sends her a screenshot of the follow request. She says, lol or I said lol. She goes, I just said huh? And then she sends me a screenshot of their. Their thing. She says, huh? He says, what? She says, what? He says, what? Why? Huh? She puts like a tired face. She says, like, why are you sending me that? She goes, he says, your. Your dad followed me. [00:07:09] Speaker A: Ha. [00:07:10] Speaker B: She says, I see that. What about it? He says, is it not funny? Remember when he unfollowed me? She starts laughing. He starts laughing. [00:07:22] Speaker A: That is, that is a piece of the story. I did not. Have you already followed this guy? [00:07:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I did, but it was like, I don't know, it was like two years ago. So I did it briefly and then so like he requested, I allowed it. I followed him back and then like I. I just was like, this dude's a douche. So I unfollowed him. So that was like two years ago. So. She says, I couldn't remember if he had followed you or not. He says, for his B day present, he followed me again. So. [00:07:58] Speaker A: What? That doesn't even make sense, dipshit. [00:08:04] Speaker B: So she goes, so when you sent it, I didn't want to say something. Hahaha. And then she laughs at his little thing. And then she says, oh, by the way, are you sure my dad followed you? He says, I screenshot it and send it to you. She goes, but I just looked and it's not. He says, dude, what the. He unfollowed me again. And I just messaged him. I just messaged him, happy birthday. She starts like bawling, laughing. He says, what the. She's still laughing. She says, that is too good. He goes, bro has touched my balls before but can't follow me back. He just said, thanks, man. She said, that's this generation's dating in a nutshell. I said he really wanted me to wish him a happy birthday. And then he sends a screenshot of my thing. She starts laughing. He says, what if I just keep on. What if I just keep him on request because I requested again. He has to earn his way back this time, okay? [00:09:13] Speaker A: So it would be hilarious to just keep intermittently requesting him. Yeah, every three months. [00:09:23] Speaker B: She says, I sent to him and said you were exposing your. Your side chicks. He says, hahaha, I love to see it, honestly. Sends a screenshot of me unrequesting him. And then he goes, are you telling him to do this? Is this a prank? She says. She laughs. He goes, is it a prank? She's like, I don't Know, I asked him, and that was it. Now I'm gonna give you what me and her talked about. So she goes, at least he's funny. I said, should I unfollow him right now? She starts bawling. She goes, yes, do it. And I'm gonna text him and say, are you sure he followed you? He's gonna refresh it and see that it's gone. I said, done. [00:10:03] Speaker A: You guys planned that whole thing. [00:10:06] Speaker B: Yeah, So I said, done. She goes, okay. And then she laughs. And then she goes, I do love Jimmy. I can't lie. I said, should I follow him again? She goes, I'm crying. She goes, give it like, 10 minutes. I said, okay. Requested. And she goes, as he go. As. He's going to sleep in Italy. He's gonna wake up a confused man. He said, she's quoting. [00:10:36] Speaker A: He goes to sleep a confused man, too. [00:10:38] Speaker B: Yeah. So she goes. He said, I swear to God. And starts. She starts laughing again. I said, canceled follow request and removed him from following me. So she's laughing again. And then that's. That's it. That was. That was the end of it. [00:11:00] Speaker A: While you were in there, did you get any intel? There's supposed to find the guy? [00:11:09] Speaker B: There's quite a. He has quite a bit of, like. He has a bunch of pictures with a bunch of dudes. [00:11:19] Speaker A: This guy loves men. [00:11:22] Speaker B: Yeah, but he. I should have screenshotted his stuff. I should follow him just to screenshot him, because I was showing his picture to other people. [00:11:31] Speaker A: It would be so funny. He let you in a third time, and that was the time that him. That was the time that you have finally. [00:11:39] Speaker B: Dude, he. He thinks he's, like, a model, bro. He's got, like, all these pictures. Like, I was showing guys at work, El Padre being one of them, and I was like, dude, look at this guy. Like, this is. You know, because he asked, like, he heard the podcast and was like, who are you guys talking about? I was like, this guy right here. And he was like, oh, my gosh. [00:11:59] Speaker A: I'd love to show you. Got him in my favorites. [00:12:06] Speaker B: Fact, I. I am going to do a little request again. Let's see. There he is. And I'll send you some pics, and then we can kind of maybe go from there. Okay, I'll do it right this time. You know, I didn't. I must have not done it right. But, yeah, he. He's really into himself. Really into himself, dude. Like, so many pictures of him. Like. [00:12:42] Speaker A: I hate that. [00:12:44] Speaker B: You know what I mean? Like, dude is. And. And they're not in his story. Like, those are things he's, like, got in his pictures. Pictures. Like, they're there forever, bro, until he deletes them. Just gay. [00:12:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I just. I've posted selfies in the last 10 years. Probably. Maybe. Probably not even selfies, honestly. It's just, like, once every two years, someone takes a good picture of me and I post that. [00:13:18] Speaker B: I mean, don't get me wrong. I want to post my selfies. I just know they're gay. [00:13:25] Speaker A: Yeah. I would feel so wrong doing that. Even if I thought it was funny, I'd be like, some people aren't gonna get it. It's wrong that I'm doing this. [00:13:37] Speaker B: I don't think it's. I don't think it's wrong because it's morally wrong. Yeah, it's. It's just gay, bro. It's just gay. Like, even though I'm, like, morally wrong, this outfit looks great. It's like, no. [00:13:53] Speaker A: Yep. It's just like, what am I doing it for? I can't. I can't get past one or two of those questions before. I just can't post it because it's like, why would I want people. Like, I. I think that people need to see this. And it's like, that just makes me feel so ridiculous. [00:14:17] Speaker B: Right? And part of me wants to do it because I'm like, ooh, it's a layering day. I've layered up. You know, I got the. The shirt with the sweater with the overcoat and the scarf on. This looks really good. And then it's like. But again, it's even gayer because you're in Arizona. [00:14:42] Speaker A: Well, all right, that brings us to tonight's topic. [00:14:48] Speaker B: Hold on. First of all, welcome to Pseudonyms. You know, we're. We're almost forgetting that stuff now until, like, last minute. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tonight, I'm surprised we have not talked about this yet. [00:15:06] Speaker A: We've touched on it, but definitely not given a whole episode to it. [00:15:16] Speaker B: When looking up famous people that have struggled with this, there's quite a bit that I didn't realize struggle with this. Like, the most surprising to me is the Rock. [00:15:29] Speaker A: The Rock, right? [00:15:32] Speaker B: Like, first of all, dude, fucking man up. Yet you got, like. You got everything. You know what I mean? You got everything. [00:15:41] Speaker A: That goes to show you, doesn't it? We haven't actually said what we're gonna talk about tonight. [00:15:45] Speaker B: I know. [00:15:47] Speaker A: Okay. That was a teaser. I. I thought we got too deep in it, and I was like, he definitely forgot to say what. So I can't think of a name for you. [00:16:01] Speaker B: Oh, there's a lot. [00:16:03] Speaker A: I guess you're gonna have to be Debbie. [00:16:06] Speaker B: Oh, I do like that. I do like that. Damn. [00:16:10] Speaker A: You know. Do you know why? [00:16:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Debbie Downer. I'm over here. Like, well, looks like he's Brook Shields, you know, like. [00:16:26] Speaker A: What. What is the significance of that? [00:16:30] Speaker B: She struggled with it. [00:16:32] Speaker A: Oh, she did. Okay. [00:16:34] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I have to explain that one. [00:16:37] Speaker A: Oh, I. I thought maybe she was in a movie where she, like, slid her wrists open or something. [00:16:41] Speaker B: No, no. [00:16:45] Speaker A: Is there Winona? [00:16:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess. Huh. [00:16:51] Speaker A: Dark Girl Interrupted. Great movie. [00:16:55] Speaker B: Is that the one with Jim Carrey? No, that's that sunshine. Yeah. [00:17:03] Speaker A: Yeah. The Girl Interrupted is Winona Ryder and. [00:17:06] Speaker B: A couple Angelina Jolie. [00:17:09] Speaker A: Yep, yep. And they're in the loony bin. [00:17:13] Speaker B: That's right. Yeah. Hold on. Before we do this, I want to. I want to go down that route. I didn't know Leaving Las Vegas and the hours were about that. I never even seen Leaving Las Vegas. But Girl Interrupted. [00:17:43] Speaker A: I haven't. [00:17:44] Speaker B: Is there. [00:17:45] Speaker A: I know the plot of Leaving Las Vegas, but I've never seen it. [00:17:50] Speaker B: All right, well, screw that, Robin Williams. Let's get this on. [00:17:54] Speaker A: That's. That's a good one. It's so funny that you bring up that movie because like a week ago, for whatever reason, my dad was trying to think of, like, definitive Vegas movies, and he goes, what's that one movie about Vegas with that really good actor? And I'm like, fucking, bro, narrow it down for me. What are you talking. [00:18:24] Speaker B: Is that the one he was talking about? [00:18:25] Speaker A: I. That. That's what I thought. I said that. And he's like, no, no, it's got that stud. That like really good looking stud guy in it. And I was like, fuck it. I hangover. Like, are you talking about Bradley Cooper? Like, what are. What we get maybe an hour into this before I'm like, are you talking about Leaving Las Vegas with Nicholas Cage? He's like. And I'm like, that's a stud to you. What? That's. That's a yug stud. [00:18:55] Speaker B: That is nuts. I don't think I've ever seen it. I don't know what it's about. [00:18:58] Speaker A: He's a writer and he's killing himself. And so Elizabeth Shue is a prostitute that he hires to just like, hang out with him while he drinks himself to death. [00:19:12] Speaker B: I've never even seen it. Never even heard about it. Dude. [00:19:15] Speaker A: Yeah. I pretty much only know the plot because they talked about it on Family Guy. [00:19:22] Speaker B: I do. Look at Nicholas Cage as one of those, like, actors that took anything and everything. [00:19:28] Speaker A: Sure. But he's great. [00:19:30] Speaker B: You like him, huh? [00:19:31] Speaker A: I do think he's great. I've never seen a bad Nicholas Cage movie, but I've not seen all the movies, obviously. [00:19:40] Speaker B: Wow. Wow. Okay. I'm kind of. I do, like gone in 60 seconds. Not gonna lie. Like gone in 60 seconds. The boy in Blue. [00:20:00] Speaker A: Never seen it. [00:20:01] Speaker B: Okay. Probably prior reason. [00:20:04] Speaker A: Time to Kill, Never seen it. [00:20:08] Speaker B: Honeymoon in Vegas. [00:20:10] Speaker A: I've seen National Treasure too. [00:20:13] Speaker B: Amos and Andrew. [00:20:17] Speaker A: Birdie. [00:20:22] Speaker B: Free Firebirds. I mean, maybe that's the one, but I don't know, man. I, I, I don't like Ghost Rider. I don't like him. I just don't like him. [00:20:32] Speaker A: Dude, that's fair. You know, I get what people don't like him. [00:20:39] Speaker B: I just feel like he is kind of the same guy in each one, you know? [00:20:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:46] Speaker B: You see Left behind with him? No. [00:20:52] Speaker A: But I bet that's hilarious. [00:20:57] Speaker B: That's what I was. [00:20:57] Speaker A: Did you see the Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent or whatever that one's called? [00:21:05] Speaker B: That's the only one I could see as being good because I see him kind of explaining himself in that. [00:21:11] Speaker A: He, he gets what a joke he is, and that makes me like him more. And Long Legs. He did Long Legs a year or two ago. He was crazy awesome in that movie. He played a tranny serial killer. Yeah. [00:21:30] Speaker B: So I'm looking at the worst Nicholas Cage movies there are. [00:21:35] Speaker A: That's not a good place to start. [00:21:37] Speaker B: There are 48, and I've only seen, like, I've only heard of maybe five or six of them. [00:21:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, he really does do like five movies a year. [00:21:48] Speaker B: Yeah, it's pretty nuts, dude. [00:21:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I never saw that body swap movie where he's like a rich guy that, like, ends up trading lives with a poor guy. [00:22:01] Speaker B: Okay, one Nicholas Cage movie. I love you. Brought it up. It's Face off with him and John Travolta. [00:22:11] Speaker A: Never seen it, but I know the plot. [00:22:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, I think John Travolta gets. John Travolta was like a cop or vice versa. One of them is a cop and they're like, okay, we got him. I'm gonna now do a face transplant so I can act like I am him to his crew, you know what I mean? And, like, figure out this thing and then like, homeboy gets out and gets a face plant like the cop. And then like, all of a sudden they just swapped faces and. Yeah, it's pretty cool. [00:22:47] Speaker A: Oh, that's why they call it Face Off. [00:22:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:53] Speaker A: Just kidding. I think that's. [00:22:55] Speaker B: I love that. [00:22:56] Speaker A: The movie I was thinking of was Family Man. [00:23:02] Speaker B: I did like Family Man. [00:23:04] Speaker A: I remember liking it. I mean, I saw it. I was, like, seven when it came. [00:23:08] Speaker B: Out, so I saw it in the theater. In fact, I watched it just last year during Christmas. I actually liked it. I. It's. I actually do like that. I. I do like him in that. I'm not gonna lie. Not gonna lie. That was a good one. That was a good one. [00:23:26] Speaker A: Did you ever see. Did you ever see Pay It Forward? [00:23:32] Speaker B: Pay It Forward? [00:23:33] Speaker A: Is that within. No. With Kevin Spacey and Haley Joel Osmit. It. It also came out in 2000, just like the Family man, and for some reason, I watched it with my parents, and I was like, 7 or 8, and I'm gonna spoil everything for you. It's Helen Hunt and Kevin Spacey, and he's like the teacher. He's Haley Joel Osmit's teacher, and Helen Hunt is his mom. He gets in a relationship with the mom, fucks the mom in the movie, and then Haley Joel Osment just gets stabbed by another kid at the end of the movie. And there's like a candlelight vigil. He gets stabbed, he dies. [00:24:19] Speaker B: Really? [00:24:20] Speaker A: And there. And there's, like a candlelit vigil at the end for him. And I just remember watching that movie, like, even at the time, I was like, why'd you let me watch that? And what the fuck was that about? Like, why was that just the saddest movie I ever saw? [00:24:37] Speaker B: Here's the crazy thing. Kevin Spacey, Helen Hunt in the movie, but I guarantee you, Offset, he was Haley Joe Osmond. [00:24:50] Speaker A: Yes. [00:24:52] Speaker B: And I don't think I could ever watch that movie without thinking that the whole time. [00:24:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Now that you say that, I bet. I bet it's a different kind of movie now. But you know what? Kevin Spacy is one of my favorite actors, and if we have to feed him a kid here and there to keep it going. [00:25:16] Speaker B: What's your favorite Heaven's Baby movie? [00:25:18] Speaker A: Just. Just what? I thought that this rap Rabbit Trail had gone nowhere and was not worth it. I. We got that joke out of it. My favorite Kevin Spacey movie. I would need a minute to think. [00:25:34] Speaker B: But he was House of Cards. [00:25:37] Speaker A: I never saw it. Baby Driver was his last movie before he got canceled, and that was pretty great. I'd have to pull that. [00:25:47] Speaker B: The one where the dude put on the headphones to drive the car. [00:25:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:51] Speaker B: Okay. [00:25:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, I mean, American Beauty. That's pretty hard to beat. [00:26:01] Speaker B: That's Funny. [00:26:02] Speaker A: Did we that you say that? [00:26:03] Speaker B: The one where he's his daughter's friend. Okay. [00:26:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:07] Speaker B: Hot. Cool, cool, cool thing. Cool thing. The girl. He. [00:26:11] Speaker A: It was a girl. It was a girl. [00:26:16] Speaker B: The girl in that. [00:26:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:19] Speaker B: Laura Birch. Yeah, we did commercials as a kid together. [00:26:24] Speaker A: Oh, really? [00:26:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow. Yeah, we did a craft handy snacks commercial. [00:26:33] Speaker A: Can I. Can I pull it up? Can I find it? [00:26:35] Speaker B: I could probably send you a link. I got. I got a couple of them saved. [00:26:44] Speaker A: Hold on. Thor bird. What? What? What? [00:26:49] Speaker B: Candy, Craft Handy snacks. It was with Thor Burch and Ashley Banks. We're, like, running through, like, hay fields, and. [00:27:02] Speaker A: We can cut all this out. I just. Yep, here it is. 1991. She was on Walking Dead. [00:27:16] Speaker B: By the way, there's, like, three boys in that commercial. [00:27:23] Speaker A: Okay, I see one of them, and it ain't you. [00:27:31] Speaker B: No, that's not it, dude. That's not it at all. [00:27:34] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, you're not running through fields. [00:27:37] Speaker B: No, I'll send it to you. [00:27:42] Speaker A: 97, but that seems a little late. [00:27:46] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I wasn't. It was maybe 88. 89. 90 max. 88. [00:27:52] Speaker A: I got 84. [00:27:55] Speaker B: No, no, I was doing. I was doing some big things. You know. [00:28:03] Speaker A: LA Confidential. Oh, seven, dude. Seven. How do you beat seven? [00:28:09] Speaker B: He was in seven. [00:28:10] Speaker A: He's. He's the guy. He's the guy. The serial killer. Yeah, dude. [00:28:16] Speaker B: Oh, so overshadowed by Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman. [00:28:19] Speaker A: Dude. He didn't even take billing, like, at the start of the movie because they didn't want to give away that he was the serial killer, and they kept him out of all the trailers. So literally, like, people were actually surprised by that when they went to the movie. [00:28:38] Speaker B: Wow. [00:28:40] Speaker A: Yeah, that's about it. I haven't seen as many Kevin Spacey movies as I thought I had, but he'd be up there for me. [00:28:53] Speaker B: All right, Mr. Williams, where you want to go up for this, man? [00:28:56] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Yeah, we've kind of gone off the trail here. Well, let's just start by talking about what we're. [00:29:06] Speaker B: What we're. [00:29:07] Speaker A: What our topic is. [00:29:09] Speaker B: All right, well, our topic tonight is depression. I know you thought it was suicide because I brought up Robin Williams and you brought up Debbie Downer, but it is not. Nay, nay. It is depression. Yeah. And this. Okay, so this came up, actually, because we were gonna have a Do our podcast the other night and circumstances my lack of sleep. I was like, hey, we can't. I can't. I'm having a hard time staying up. And your response was, my father's having a Little depression situation right now. And so you wanted to kind of spend some time with him, which I thought was awesome. [00:29:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, it was weird, dude. I got to keep my voice down, but I came. I came home, and he. He, like, he was in his room. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna get my book and my pipe, and I'm gonna run out to the backyard so I can have my pipe and read my book. Because, like, once I'm out there, no one's gonna bug me, but if I. If I get caught before then, I might get stuck talking or something. And so, like, just as I'm, like, washing my hands and getting ready to go outside, he. He comes out of his room. I'm like, fuck. And I've already. I've already heard from my wife that he was a bit of a mess, you know, but I didn't really know what it entailed. But he. He comes out and just like, hey, how's it going? I'm like, yeah, yeah, good. I'm, like, getting my pipe together and, like, getting my book. I'm, like, heading outside, and so I'm still, like, inching out the door, and I think, you know, this will. This will get him off my back. I'm like, hey, we can play gin later if you want. Like, I'll promise him we'll play cards later. But, you know, I'm going outside, and he just goes. He just looks at me, and he goes, I haven't had a good day. His eyes are all full of tears, and I was just like, well, this is. Oh, I'm still smoking my pipe. Get out here. And. And we talked it out a little bit, but, yeah, I was just. Not a terribly unusual circumstance, but it did spark us to think that we should do this as a topic on the podcast. [00:31:46] Speaker B: You're also. Something good came out of this. [00:31:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Finally, pain into art, bitches. [00:31:53] Speaker B: I'm not gonna lie, man. That's. That's really cool that you. That you did that. You know, that you. You took that time for sure. I know for myself. I. I say I struggled with depression. I don't think I struggle any more with depression. And it's not because of anything I've necessarily done. It's more because for me now, it's kind of like, I know it's there, therefore, I don't give it the weight that it. That it. That it's requesting. And so, like, when it's there, I'm like, hey, look. Like, okay. It's a gray day. That's just Kind of how I refer to it, it's a gray day. And then I kind of keep it moving. However, I do sit down and, and look at what, what, why is it gray? What happened? You know, like, what, what made, like, what is it that's really kind of getting to me? What is making this day a crappy day? And for the longest time it was, it was the days that like, I missed my little one the most. And that was more as an adult. But there, I don't know, man, when it, when it, you know, before the separation and before she was like, the reason for the depression, a lot of it is just like, I don't want to get out of bed, I don't want to do nothing, I don't want to go nowhere. And quite frankly, I would just have to fucking man up and get up, you know? [00:33:48] Speaker A: Yeah. And so I, I kind of was looking into the. And it'd probably be worth kind of going over some of the symptoms because we've already mentioned, you know, lethargy and like non motivation and just a general feeling of sadness with maybe no reason necessarily for it, but you could probably always find a reason. And that's actually a great debate in depression is like, does it happen for no reason? Or is there always kind of a reason? You just have to kind of dig for it. But that led me to ask Chat gbt a question I didn't realize was a great debate among people who talk about depression. But a big one is does this need to be treated holistically or can you treat each individual symptom? So like, can you treat your lack of motivation and your narcolepsy and your, you know, feeling sad, you know, by like maybe getting out in the sun? Can you do all those things separately or do you need to find some kind of unifying treatment for the root of the depression, which is some kind of chemical imbalance? And people don't, don't agree on that. [00:35:20] Speaker B: Okay, well, what are your thoughts on it? [00:35:26] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't know. I think because like, for me there's a couple of key things that, that helped me. I've never had to be on medication. [00:35:40] Speaker B: You struggle with, but I have. [00:35:42] Speaker A: Oh yes. Severely. Not. Yeah, I shouldn't say severely. Okay, that was, that was an exaggeration. I, I will say terribly, but never to the point of suicide. That's like the one area that it's never gone. But based on some statistics you sent me in preparation for the show, that's not necessarily for sure that I never. [00:36:05] Speaker B: Will, you're not out of the weeds yet. [00:36:09] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I did briefly go to a therapist and boy, was that a waste of time. But I did tell him, you know, I think. I think I struggle with clinical depression. And he immediately was dismissive. He. Because, and honestly, probably fairly so, because he probably hears that every day and maybe nine out of 10 people don't have it. But he's like, no. You know, that would really entail, like trouble falling asleep, trouble waking up, lack of motivation, you know, sadness for no reason. All the. I mean, he listed like 15 things and including like suicidal ideation. And when he was done with his long winded response, I was like, yeah, so everything except the suicide thing, for sure. I've had like, like every one of those, for sure. [00:37:00] Speaker B: I'm the doctor here. I'll be the one to tell you if you have clinical depression, okay? [00:37:09] Speaker A: But he, it was, it was. Honestly, there was so. There were so many batshit things about him right off the bat. I, I didn't like him right off the bat. He literally ended our first session by saying this. I don't know, you seem like a great guy to me. Like, I think they're wrong about you. I think you should stop listening to the people who tell you, you need this. [00:37:35] Speaker B: I, that's, that's, that's kind of. That's shitty because I think, I think, I think there are therapists that can help for sure. But I don't think, I don't think every therapist should be a therapist, if you know what I mean, you know? Yeah. [00:38:03] Speaker A: And Larry, Larry should not be a therapist if for no other reason than the fact that his Internet didn't work. [00:38:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I was, I was more. I was more heavy on the suicidal ideation. Yeah, I think, I think I've tried it seven times. Seven to eight times in my life. Yeah. [00:38:27] Speaker A: Because you, I, from what I know of you, you don't have a problem getting out of bed. Even if it's hard, you can still do it. You can still get to work, you know. [00:38:38] Speaker B: Well, it's more when I was younger, you know, when I was younger, but, you know, now it's kind of like, I don't know, man. There came a point. And honestly, like Carol Dweck's book about fixed mindset and growth, mindset helped me tremendously. And it was, it not only helped me as a father, how to talk to my kids and not set them up for a fixed mindset, but like, yeah, you know, I had such a fixed mindset. If someone's If I, if I failed at something, I was a failure. If someone called me a piece of shit, I was a piece of shit. Like, that's my new identity, you know, instead of, you know, kind of like overcoming it and, and facing it, you know, this, this, this. Men die by suicide at a rate of four times higher than women. You all right, bud? [00:39:42] Speaker A: Just trying to sit back down. This chair keeps banging into everything. [00:39:49] Speaker B: The 75 and older spike, I don't know, you know, that's. I get it. But I think that's more from kind of like that last line. It gets harder as you lose your career identity. [00:40:01] Speaker A: I just think, like, I'm wondering how much of that is health stuff. [00:40:06] Speaker B: That's kind of where I'm saying, like, so I feel like some of these guys are like, well, I want to go out on steaks, not shakes. You know what I'm saying? [00:40:13] Speaker A: Yeah. And what you're referring to is apparently the majority of men who commit suicide are 75 or older. [00:40:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know about. I, I don't know about all that, but the, the distortion of reality is definitely something that I feel like a lot of people can relate to, you know, this is who I am. [00:40:44] Speaker A: Yes. [00:40:45] Speaker B: Nothing will change. I'm a burden. I thought I was a burden for years, even in my marriage. Like, you guys would be better off without me. Like, honestly. And so, yeah, I think, I think, you know, coming to a point. And it sucked because it was well into my 40s. Not well into. I'm well into my 40s just now. It was at the beginning of my 40s where it was kind of like, all right, I actually, I'm a cool dude, you know? Like, I have to believe the things that other people are saying about me. And without it sounding cocky or egotistical. It was definitely something where I was like, wow, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I am like, okay. I can see that, you know, men are drawn to me. And I don't mean that in a cocky way. I just, like, I love being around dudes in a healthy, like, brother fashion. I think it's because I had all sisters and all daughters. But, you know, it's at the same time, like, I, I, these guys that were in school or at work would be. Want to hang out and be drawn and, and it was like, okay. What? They think I'm cool. You know, the, the guy that wanted to do all the games, the game board night guy. I don't know if you know his name, but lg, I know he would. Yeah, he, he would always want to hang out. And I'm like, okay, like. And in my mind, I'm like, if you only knew who I was. You know what I mean? And, like. Like Robin Williams. I feel sometimes we kind of pull that string and we dance, you know, We're a dancing monkey, you know what I mean? Where we just, like, you know, we grab our little symbols and we just, you know, entertain people, dude. You know, Because I don't know. That's what we do. I mean, I don't think any. You know, I think for a long time, no one really wants to hear the you. You. Perfect example. Your dad's like, I had a really bad day. And for the most part, for the beginning of that, I think, you know, you're like, hey, I. I kind of want to have me time, you know? [00:43:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:08] Speaker B: I know. Not everybody wants to be weighed down with what I got to say say, you know what I mean? Not everybody wants to be weighed down with. So today really sucked because. And then I'm gonna go into depth about how my life sucks, you know, Feeling. [00:43:30] Speaker A: Yes and no. I. I got into it. Like, I embraced my role as the listener because I know what it's like to need that outlet and have no one who will listen to you for. [00:43:48] Speaker B: Sure, because that is you. You. You. You can relate. You can. You can empathize with it. [00:43:53] Speaker A: So that. So that got me into it. That got me into, like, okay, I'm gonna have my pipe. Let's talk. Just. And I didn't talk. I listened. And that's really probably what you should do. [00:44:04] Speaker B: But. [00:44:04] Speaker A: But, like, so that. That changes my mind about myself because, like, how many people would actually like to take that burden from me, but it's not offered to them, you know? [00:44:20] Speaker B: Yeah, you're probably right. There was something in here. I was reading where it said, okay, talk to a. To one safe human. Not everyone. One silent. Makes pain feel infinite. Naming. It makes it measurable. I did look up some helps for this because I kind of wondered what kind of helps are out there for. For this? I think when someone can relate like yourself. Yes, it is. There is. There is some. There's some legs to it, if you will. There's. There's. Yeah. You know, you could get somewhere if you will. I think when. And again, the listening part of it is. Is good. But I. I'm not gonna lie, man. I'm not gonna lie. There are some guys that just want to hear themselves, you know what I mean? And I'm not. I'm not saying it's it's you, your dad, or anything like that, but I know some guys that are like, they, they want to, you know, my dad, My dad's perfect example. You know, he would love to sit down and just talk about his struggles and how his day went and, you know, just what he's struggling with. And I, I don't know if it's because he did that my whole life. I just kind of, you know, you know, when he had no friends around because nobody wants to listen, but, man, it just kind of bogged me down. However, when it, when someone truly is struggling, I do want to listen and empathize, but I also want to, like, turn the corner and say, okay, like this, let's, let's, let's make an action plan. Like, let's, let's do this together. [00:46:08] Speaker A: Like, let's not just vent. [00:46:10] Speaker B: Yeah, let's, let's, let's, let's partner in this and like, have, have a plan, have an accountability plan with one another where we're just like, hey, you know, and that's where for me, journaling became a real key, you know, to actually sit down and put to paper how I'm feeling and know that one. I don't have to sit there and feel like this person can't relate. This person's sitting there listening to me. Just, you know, and, you know, and, you know, I would. So many things you read, people are not really interested in you. You know, how to win friends and influence people, it's all about them. You know, nobody cares about you. [00:46:58] Speaker A: Well, they, they say, they say, don't tell people your problems because half the people don't care and the other half are glad you have them. [00:47:08] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, and I don't think that's true, but I don't either. I mean, but you have to have some good. You have to have a good friend for that one, you know? But again, I think I, you know, there was a time where I felt like I was becoming a burden to that, that friend, that good friend, you know, because it was like every, every other time we're talking, I'm, I'm just expressing my, my depression or my struggles and my suicidal ideation and, you know, like, oh, if I do it on my birthday, they only gotta celebrate my death and my birthday one day. You know, that's. [00:47:50] Speaker A: That'S. But efficient, right? [00:47:54] Speaker B: Very efficient. You know, I had it planned for a little bit there. It was like, dude, like, yeah, makes sense. You know, they're not celebrating my death day and my birthday just One day. [00:48:04] Speaker A: You know, we give dad one. [00:48:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:09] Speaker A: You know that's fucked up, right? [00:48:11] Speaker B: And I died with the, with the setting, you know, the sunset. [00:48:15] Speaker A: I've. I've often thought about journaling as like breaking problems down into smaller, more manageable steps, but I've never really thought of it as measuring a problem. Which you've said once or twice already, and that's really interesting. The fact that you can record it on paper means that it's not an infinite problem. Like it does. It is finite. It is containable. [00:48:50] Speaker B: You know, honestly, for me, I had to. I had to. I had to like, do some self reflection and be like, okay, what has changed in my environment today? You know, and one thing, you know that I tell number three because she kind of struggles with it. I said, hey, here's the great thing. And this has helped me. Tomorrow's gonna be different. Today is. Today sucks. Yeah, it's a gray day for sure. But the cool thing I've noticed about my depression, it's always temporary, comes and goes, you know what I mean? So when I say tomorrow is going to be different, there's a good chance it's going to be different. Because I've noticed in my depression, it's not 24, seven, it's a day here, it's a day there. Today, here, today. It's not everyday living. I'm not sure if there is someone that walks around like that, but for me it wasn't. It's not every day. It's. [00:49:51] Speaker A: It's. [00:49:52] Speaker B: Yeah, there's some good days and then there's days where it just hits like a brick. And I'm quiet, I'm reserved, you know, I'm stoic, you know, you know something's wrong, but I'm just processing thought. [00:50:06] Speaker A: So other than journaling, is there anything that you do that helps you? [00:50:17] Speaker B: I like to get drunk and high, you know. No, I'm kidding. [00:50:20] Speaker A: For sure. [00:50:24] Speaker B: I like to run from it and numb it, you know, and just act like it's not there. No, no. I mean, outside of just looking at it and saying, hey, like this is, this is here, but it's not going to be here forever. Like that is. There's so much comfort in knowing that this is temporary for me, you know, like today sucked, but that doesn't mean tomorrow's gonna suck. I don't know how tomorrow's gonna be, but from my track record, tomorrow's not gonna suck. It'll probably be in a couple weeks or a week, but it's not tomorrow, you know? And I can address that, that next day that comes and it's a week from now or two weeks from now. And I'll address it the same way, that it's temporary and tomorrow is going to be better. [00:51:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:17] Speaker B: But for me, in those good times, I mean, man, it was such. I remember the. Like the day I'm standing in front of a toaster and I was just like. I just, like. I just remember standing there and I'm like, man, this feeling. This feeling is so, like, not comforting. It was more like nostalgic. It was more like. It was comforting in the sense that I felt this way since I can remember. I have felt this way ever since I can remember. And I just remember thinking, I'm done feeling this way. Like, it's gotta stop and I have to do something. I have to do something. Like, I have to, like, build a plan. I have to. And so, like, part of it was I had to evaluate how do I function best. I function best, best with, like, a list of rules, something I can follow, you know, and that's why I started writing on my mirrors, dude. It was like, okay, today you're doing this. You know, today you're doing this. And it wasn't like I was writing down a list of stuff to do. It was just like, a positive mind or a negative mind will never produce a positive life. It's a day. Day one. Or is it just one day? Some biblical truth, you know, God, you know, Isaiah, chapter one, the second half of it, you know, where he's talking about, cease doing evil, learn to do good, care for the orphans and widows. You know, just kind of all that stuff where he's like, giving us or giving the people commands to like, hey, like, you have control over this. You know, like, this isn't just a let go, like, God situation. Those moments will come, don't get me wrong, when you can't do anything but let go. But for the most part, it was just stuff like that. Like, I was just looking at different sayings of like, okay, like, hey, like, you know, learn to love. You know, like, hold love over everything. You know, get up, start reading, start working out, start eating better. And that's honestly where I was getting up. Where I started getting up at 3. My day looked different, of course, because I'd get up at 3 and cook breakfast, go work out, read and then go to work. Now I get up at 3, get dressed and go to work. But it's. I. I haven't had a. Probably a day of depression in. I don't know. Probably one and a half, two years now. [00:54:12] Speaker A: Nice. [00:54:13] Speaker B: I mean, it's been pretty. Yeah, it's been pretty. Pretty good. I mean, I can say I've definitely had some sad days, but they weren't, like, impactful like they were a year and a half, maybe two years ago. [00:54:27] Speaker A: Mm. [00:54:28] Speaker B: You know, it's kind of like, I kind of know now when they're gonna come, and I know the source is usually now just missing number four, you know? [00:54:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:39] Speaker B: Or number. Or number one and two, you know, because I don't see them a lot. You know, I see number three all the time. But number four, we'll have a good week. And then she goes back with big country number one and two, you know, Like, I feel like we get along great as far as, like, we. We jive, and I don't see them. So, like, most of my depression now isn't. Is. Is situationally inflicted circumstances. It's circumstantial, as, you know. It's. It's not something now where, like, when I was younger, I would just. I'd sleep 13, 14, 15 hours easy, because I didn't want to face the day. [00:55:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:25] Speaker B: You know, now I'm excited about the day. I get up and I want to go have coffee on the patio and read a book. [00:55:35] Speaker A: Yeah. It's been a long time since I've been excited to wake up, but I've had those moments. I've had those moments of, like, all right, get your shit together. Like, write out these bullet points. Let's start making a plan for what works. Difficult question. Do you think that you are always capable of snapping into that mental mode and getting yourself out of it, or do you think that it is just something that comes when it comes. Comes? [00:56:09] Speaker B: I think there is. So as I'm addressing chapter one of my book to follow, one of the lines that I have is, no man rises above the quality of his thinking. And I think, honestly, that we can snap it. And I don't mean that, like. I don't mean that in the sense of, like, say it and it's done. I mean that in the sense of, like, yeah, it's. It's gonna be a little bit of a road, but it's something that's very doable. For sure. I think it's very doable. And that's where I think Carol Dweck's book helped me so much, because I didn't realize statistically fixed mindsets are more highly suicidal than growth mindset. [00:57:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Because there's no way out yeah, right. [00:57:08] Speaker B: You know, exactly. You know, like, fixed mindset. I'm a burden. Growth mindset is okay. I'm going to show you that I'm an asset. You think I'm a burden? Let me show you I'm an asset. You say I'm an asshole. Let me show you. It's like the. What the Michael Jordans are made of when they're just like, oh, you think I'm no good? I'm gonna drop 69. You know what I mean? It's those people that say, like, oh, there's the. There's the odds I'm gonna beat them. You know, I didn't realize how fixed mindset I was until I read that book. Knew nothing about it. [00:57:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:46] Speaker B: And then I read the book and I was like, wow, I'm very fixed mindset. Mindset, you know, I'm very, like. And I've been conditioned that way. You know what I mean? Like, as a child actor, I was conditioned to, like, me getting in commercials was what. What I was good for, you know, without commercials. I mean, I lived years going through life telling people. People would never know I was in commercials or acting or movies. And they're like, how come you didn't say anything? You know, like, your mom told us you're in movies. How come you never said anything? Because. And my response was always, because it's. Where are they now? You know, like, what am I? I was in Nike commercial. You're like, oh, you guys look at me now. You're like, so what are you doing now? Construction, you know, nothing glamorous. You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't really a badge of, like, achievement or, like, what I've done. It was like, I used to be great. Now I'm. Now I'm this, you know? [00:58:49] Speaker A: Yeah. And so, yeah, I feel the same way when I talk about music because, like, people will see me who haven't seen me since, like, 2012, and they'll be like, oh, man. Yeah. Like, I remember we went to Chain Reaction and we saw your band play. That was so cool. Like, what are you doing? Are you still playing music? It's like, no, I actually, like, can hardly play guitar anymore. It's kind of sad. I'll, like, play it for five minutes and get frustrated and put it away. It's depressing. [00:59:20] Speaker B: Really? [00:59:22] Speaker A: Kinda. Yeah. [00:59:24] Speaker B: Oh. [00:59:29] Speaker A: Yeah. I didn't mean to cut you off. I just. [00:59:31] Speaker B: No, no. But I get where you're coming from. [00:59:34] Speaker A: Your identity is not in what you do. [00:59:38] Speaker B: Yeah. And. And so part of it is now where I'm like, yeah, you know, like, I don't mind talking about being in commercials. It was fun. I did it as a kid. You know what I mean? I think some of that was with big country as well. Went from, like, parents to big Country. You know, my parents were very excited about it. Big country is kind of like, oh, a little eye roll. Here he goes again. You know, like, his mom brought up his commercials and he's gonna talk about it, or. You know what I mean? And. And honestly, I think she kind of summed it up near the end of our marriage where she was like, you know, you've. You've been nothing but an. And yet you're the one going on tv, you're the one going on the radio stations. You're the one. You know, Like, I think she just hated. I think she just hated the fact that, like, I don't know, I'm cool. [01:00:32] Speaker A: As, you know, people like you. [01:00:34] Speaker B: Yeah. But again, I didn't believe I was cool as fuck until I was, like, 40, dude, when I was like, yeah, you know what? Like, dude, I like people. People will follow me if I ask them to follow me. Like, people actually. They see something in me that maybe I don't see. And so I was sitting on the patio and I'm like, I actually like who I am. [01:00:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:56] Speaker B: She's like, what? I was like, I actually like who I am. Like, I don't think I've ever said that in my whole life. Like, I like who I am, you know, Like, I'm. I'm confident who I am now. You know, I've always doubted and I've played the whole fake it till you make it thing, but I'm confident who I am. And that's part of Lee. That's part of, like, why this other venture I'm going into is happening because, like, I don't want guys to go 40 years not liking who they are, questioning who they are. Like, a lot of it is mental, dude. A lot of it is mental. You know, it's like, I remember leaving la, you know, I. I was in Lake Lake Forest for, like, a couple years in junior high and. Kind of a nerd, you know, I was, huh. I was trying to think of a good name for her, but I was basically Dickhead's little brother. That's probably the best word I got for her. I was Dickhead's little brother in. In junior high and didn't have any confidence. Had like, three friends. She knew everybody in the school, and I was just kind of, like, not really assure of myself. And then when I left and came back, I knew, undoubtedly, I am whoever I say I am at this point. So when I came back and, you know, and because we went back to Lake Forest at. When I turned 18, and I was only there for a couple years because that's where my dad's fourth wife lived and her third wife. That's where his third wife lived, and I was. I had to live with him for a couple years because I got in trouble. And then I went back with my mom. So when my mom tried to move to Lake Forest to make, like, start a relationship with my older sister, I came back like, this is who I am. And I realized, you'll believe what I tell you, because you know nothing about me. You know, like, yeah, this is what I do now. This is who I am. And I became a man, like, over kind of overnight. It was like, okay, this is how I want to walk. And you're not gonna say about it. I mean, most of the confrontation is ended in the words, we don't have to throw fist. I could just tell you, I'm gonna stand up, and this is what's gonna happen. And it was. And people believed it. And so at 17, I was just like, all right, cool. Like, this is. This is who I am. And I just started doing that. Changed how I talked, how I laughed, everything. Now my laugh's back to being gay. But it was cool. [01:03:45] Speaker A: At one time. [01:03:45] Speaker B: It was pretty. Pretty good. Yeah. Now I'm like, I've been hearing it in the. I've been hearing it in the. In the podcast, bro. I'm like. Like, is that me laughing? It sure is. Yeah. [01:04:03] Speaker A: You're genuinely enjoying life again. [01:04:05] Speaker B: Wow. I know. I used to have a really cool, like, you know. [01:04:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So I think you're right. I think that your attitude can have a lot of say over your outlook and just how you like, like, you know, lack of a better term, you can fake it till you make it kind of thing. They've done studies, apparently, where people will read comic strips from the newspaper that are not very funny, and they will report how funny they found them, but if they put a pencil between their teeth, which makes them grin in a weird way, there was, like, 40% of people liked the comic strips more if they were smiling when they read them. [01:05:03] Speaker B: That's weird. [01:05:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And. And so, you know, I. I do find myself smiling more often. Not on purpose. [01:05:13] Speaker B: Walking around with a pencil in your teeth and shit. [01:05:16] Speaker A: No, I just, like, I remember it was Thursday I think. And I was coming back to my office from the bathroom, and I, like, saw someone in the breezeway on my way back to the office, and I remember, like, smiling and waving at them, but I was already smiling. It was a very foreign feeling because I usually. I've got resting bitch face really bad, and when I see someone, I know I have to, like, really turn on the smile. But I. I remember realizing, like, oh, I was already smiling. So I was just in the bathroom, like, listening to a podcast on my headphones, just walking back to my office, and I'm just smiling, you know, and it's like, yeah, I think I'm just, like, having. My circumstances are just a lot better now than they were three months ago. [01:06:06] Speaker B: You know, I think it's great that you're like, yeah, I'm smiling more often. I remember Thursday, and that's like, literally three days ago. You're like, Thursday, I had a smile. I remember having a smile Thursday. [01:06:20] Speaker A: It was unusual. [01:06:22] Speaker B: It was unusual. I think helps that actually move the needle. Shrink the goal again. I think that's kind of for me. I had to battle my depression with goals. I needed something. I didn't go this small, but this makes sense, you know, don't aim for getting better. Aim for shower. Walk five minutes. Answer. Answer a text like you're making little stuff. You're. You're redirecting your mind to do something, you know? And honestly, I think, you know, I have to kind of quote Dr. Tosh. He says getting a jet ski. He's never seen anybody sad or depressed on a jet Ski. Jet skis cure depression. [01:07:14] Speaker A: I'm gonna say I've never seen anyone sat on a paddle board either. [01:07:19] Speaker B: Okay? [01:07:20] Speaker A: And I'm ready to make that core to my identity. [01:07:24] Speaker B: I like that, man. I like that. I do like that. I have questions because I pulled up. [01:07:31] Speaker A: I pulled up. I don't know when a good time to go over it would be. I pulled up the top 10 symptoms of depression and the easiest fix for them. I probably didn't word that well an easy thing you can do to combat that one symptom. If we wanted to go with, like, treating the symptoms rather than the central issue. And I think I've thought about this more while we've been talking, and I think it depends on the kind of depression. I think. I think if it's like, clinical chemical imbalance, there's nothing you can do. Like, your circumstances are perfect and your mind's still. I think there are things you can do short of medication. I think There are things you can do to kind of treat that whole thing. Mostly sun, sunlight and breathing. But I'll get into that later. But I think if, if it's circumstantial, I think the depression breaks into more symptomatic and I think at that point you're kind of dealing with symptoms. So. Okay, low mood, emotional heaviness. I love how Joe Rogan describes this. He describes it as someone turning up the gravity. He's like, that's what depression feels like. It feels like someone just turned up the gravity and everything's like heavier. Say what you're feeling out loud to someone safe. So you already talked about that. We already talked about having a safe outlet. And then it also says allow neutral pleasure such as music or nature or routine comforts. I don't know about that. I think all of that needs to be qualified heavily because like, for me it would definitely depend on the kind of music. Like I'm not gonna feel better just turning on my favorite music because my favorite music might be depressing a shit. But. [01:09:34] Speaker B: Yeah. You like put on some Billie Eilish. [01:09:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Or. Yeah. Or some Johnny Cash or something like that. Just something inherently depressing. But I think that the, the real takeaway there is to. To name did say nature. [01:09:59] Speaker B: Scientifically running water produces positive ions. [01:10:03] Speaker A: Really? [01:10:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:05] Speaker A: Like my sink or. [01:10:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:09] Speaker B: No. Yeah. [01:10:10] Speaker A: Oh, really? [01:10:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:12] Speaker A: So how do I apply that? [01:10:16] Speaker B: I just thought, I always think like when, when nature wise, a river is perfect to be. [01:10:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:23] Speaker B: To be around. [01:10:25] Speaker A: Yeah. I might as. I might as well get into it here because I think this is more on the holistic side. I just feel better overall when I'm out in the. [01:10:40] Speaker B: As. [01:10:41] Speaker A: I don't want to give. I don't want to give bad medical advice. But as I've suspected for a long time, I am now starting to hear rumors of studies that they're doing that sunlight does not give you cancer. Sun burns give you cancer. So gradual increase in sun exposure is maybe not going to give you cancer. I wouldn't worry about it either way. It's not everyone gets it. And being out in the sun is really good for you. It resets your biological clock and it helps you produce more serotonin. And it also helps the serotonin yield to melatonin later on in the night so you can sleep better. So that. [01:11:26] Speaker B: And it's the only. I want to say it's the only thing that can give you vitamin D. Yeah. [01:11:32] Speaker A: I mean, short of like supplements. Yeah. That's. That's where it comes from. And that's huge for, for mood and everything. So I, I found, you know, and, and I don't know how it is in Arizona because I think it's a lot colder there right now. But it's been, there's been some days that are. Have been in the 70s here and have been, you know, sunny in January, which, you know. Yeah, okay, so you got it, you got it. You got the same thing. That's not something I'm used to in Oklahoma. But being able to go out, you know, we had a couple of rainy days and I could feel myself kind of starting to get a little funky because of the lack of sunlight and stuff. Had a couple of sunny days, went out in the sun and felt better immediately, you know. Now I don't think that's going to work for everyone, but like, I think if, if you're more on the chemical side than the circumstantial side, I think the sun is going to help a lot. And breathing also seems to have huge implications for our mental health because they've done studies where they've had people like breathe through their mouth for like five days straight. And they start, not only do they start getting sleep apnea and they, they can't sleep at night, they start to report depression and anxiety in higher numbers and all these things. And it has something to do with the CO2 that you take in when you're not breathing through your nose. So, um, there's. Yeah. So I mean, anyone out there who needs it Google breathing exercises. There's no shortage of breathing exercises you can do. But the, the key takeaways are exhale longer than you inhale and inhale and exhale as deeply as you can and try to slow your breathing down a little bit while you go. And everything else is just sort of a variation of that. [01:13:41] Speaker B: It's a lot more ammunition against those mouth breathers. [01:13:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Pay attention, man. Like, see how up are their noses? Because like, even their noses, their nasal cavities started getting up because they weren't being used. And just a couple of days, just a couple of days, people started reporting these symptoms. So I mean, yeah, it really you up to not breathe through your nose and in the CO2, I hope that's the one. Carbon dioxide, I think. Is that it? No. Yeah, CO2, I believe that's what we breathe out. [01:14:19] Speaker B: Right. [01:14:20] Speaker A: You're. When you're breathing out. So breathing in gives you the oxygen, but breathing out is. The CO2 is actually. Or carbon dioxide rather is actually what releases oxygen into your bloodstream. So even though you need to breathe in to get the oxygen, breathing out is more important to actually feel the effects of oxygen and actually be oxygenated. So that's why after a long exhale, you feel a little more relaxed and it's, it's signaling to your body that you don't, you're not in danger, that you can relax, that everything's okay. So like just simply working on your breathing and just thinking about it throughout the day and just like, you know, I'm gonna take an inhale, maybe hold it for a second or two, and I'm just gonna exhale it for as long as I can take another breath. I mean do that five or six times an hour and you're getting way more oxygen than you were before. You're signaling to your body that things are okay. So I think between sunlight and breath, most depression can probably be treated. [01:15:35] Speaker B: But I'm not run then this could be the wrong way to do it. I actually breathe in through my nose and out through my mouth. [01:15:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I've heard both ways on that. The book I read was in favor of breathing out of the nose, but I've googled it because that's, I've never heard that anywhere else. It's always been breathe through the nose, breathe in through the nose, out through the mouth. And it seems that there's not much of a meaningful difference there. [01:16:05] Speaker B: Okay. [01:16:06] Speaker A: Yeah, but again, I'm not a doctor, so. [01:16:11] Speaker B: Not a doctor. [01:16:14] Speaker A: Loss, loss of interest or pleasure, what it looks like nothing feels worth doing. Doing even things you used to love. And in order to fight that, do activities for duration, not enjoyment. And then it says mood often follows action. So a good example of that you, you mentioned just take a shower, just return one text message. You know, I find breaking things down into smaller goals makes the them much easier to conquer mentally because I tend to get overwhelmed with things I haven't done yet. Fatigue and low energy, exhaustion that sleep doesn't fix. Protect sleep. The solution to that is protect sleep and wake time consistently and maybe have some gentle movement such as a walk and not a hard workout. In other places I've seen it written that you need to have a wake up time that's more consistent even if you're going to bed at different times. So like it's better for you to wake up at seven every single day. Even if you're getting like four hours of sleep one night and eight hours the other night. It's more important to wake up at the same time just for the sake of Your biological clock and just feeling like you're participating in the world. You know what I mean? Because apparently. [01:17:46] Speaker B: What about working out? [01:17:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I don't, I didn't ask a lot of questions about working out, but I know that that's massively helpful for me and is recommended by. I mean, like when people, when doctors talk about depression, it's always sleep, work out, get some sunlight, like get outside. That's always the things that they, they go straight to. So I'll have to see if maybe it talks about working out here a little bit later, but releases serotonin when you, when you work out. And that's what makes you happy. So. [01:18:28] Speaker B: Yeah, that's exactly why I asked. [01:18:31] Speaker A: So this is interesting. This is the first time that I realized that insomnia and oversleeping are kind of two sides of the same coin because I was. Yeah, yeah, I never realized that. And I always thought it was weird because when I was a kid, and I mean, still now I take forever to fall asleep. Like, I don't get tired until I've been awake for like 20 hours. And if I don't set an alarm and if no one wakes me up, which that hasn't happened in years, but like I can still sleep 12 hours probably if I don't have anything to wake me up, you know. So it's just always been weird to me that like I can be awake so long and I can sleep so long instead of one or the other. But basically it's two sides of the same coin, which is non restorative sleep. You're. You're sleeping but not resting. And to fight that, it recommends morning sunlight within an hour of waking up. And that just. That helps orient your circadian rhythm and your biological clock to, to basically. [01:19:39] Speaker B: That'd be nice. [01:19:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Brain three. Yeah. Right. Well, they have, they have red light therapy. They've got. That's, that's what I've been hearing. Recommended by Andrew Huberman a lot. They've got these lights that basically create red light, which is just one of the many spectrum of sunlight, but apparently it helps your vision. So like just being exposed to red light, like helps your vision improve and also is, is great for your mood. It's. It's like being in the sun without having the actual like UV rays on you. [01:20:20] Speaker B: What about staring at the sun? [01:20:23] Speaker A: Staring at the sun? [01:20:25] Speaker B: I've heard staring at the sun is like a good thing. [01:20:30] Speaker A: I think you'll go blind. [01:20:33] Speaker B: Okay. That's why I couldn't buy into it because that's How I was raised, you. [01:20:36] Speaker A: Know, who says staring into the sun. [01:20:39] Speaker B: Dude, There's a whole, like, thing on it, bro. And I kind of thought the same thing you did, but it was. But go on. I digress. I was just saying that because you brought up the red light therapy and helps with vision. [01:20:51] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I might as well. Yeah, I. I should have mentioned that when. When I was talking about sunlight. If you live in a place such as Oklahoma, where I used to live, where sunlight is not. I mean, it's. You can be outside and you can see the sun, but you're not going to be, like, outside in a T shirt enjoying the sun for four months out of the year because it's too cold or if you're waking up early before the sun rises. That's also a really good point. They are. They're. They're making a lot of red light therapy. It's basically a lamp that you turn on and you sit underneath it or look into it, and it's just deep red light. And. And apparently it's really good for this, but I haven't. I haven't tried it. Apparently. Really good for your immune system, too. So. [01:21:43] Speaker B: Oklahoma ranks nine out of the top ten most depressing states. [01:21:48] Speaker A: Really? Well, that totally makes sense to me. [01:21:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Most depressed states. It's number nine. I did this search because I thought it was going to be Seattle. Washington. That's going to be Washington. [01:21:58] Speaker A: Where's Washington? [01:21:59] Speaker B: Washington doesn't even make the list. [01:22:01] Speaker A: No ship. But Oregon does, right? [01:22:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Or. Yeah, Oregon's number five. No, Oregon's number six. West Virginia is number one. [01:22:10] Speaker A: Really? Virginia? [01:22:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:22:13] Speaker A: Okay. [01:22:14] Speaker B: It's those states over there, dude. It's Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama, Oregon, Louisiana, Vermont, Oklahoma, and Montana. [01:22:23] Speaker A: There's maybe some generational guilt there. [01:22:28] Speaker B: Mm. I've. [01:22:29] Speaker A: I've. Dude, it blows my mind that Oregon can be just one of the most beautiful places on the planet, and yet people are so fucked up there, you know, I know it's not everyone, but, like, just to see how highly it ranks on depression and like, I have heard that they only get like 100 days of sunshine a year in most places. In Oregon, you know, especially to the west, it's just like, man, but it's the most beautiful place. Like, it's. It. You would think it's paradise to live there and then. Nope. Yeah. [01:23:06] Speaker B: No, man, it's like the. It's like the Ferrari. And, you know, you think you get the Ferrari. It's the best car all the time. Forever after. After a year or two with It. You're like, yeah, it's a Ferrari. [01:23:22] Speaker A: Yeah, dude, I just read Ecclesiastes and that's it. I mean, that's it. This dude Solomon had everything anyone could ever want. He had all the money, all the women, all the pleasures. He. He could do whatever. He could decide one day that he wants to hunt a man for sports and a man would be brought to him and he could hunt him for sport. And this dude still at the end of it was like, yeah, it's just not doing it for me. You know, it's just like. It's just we. If there's one person in history we can take at their word that, like, pleasure is not going to give you ultimate fulfillment. It's Solomon. No one had more pleasure than him anyways. And yet, I mean, fulfilling 800 wives, though, you know, maybe 100. [01:24:25] Speaker B: It just sounds like a. That just sounds like 800 headaches. 800 or at least 799. [01:24:34] Speaker A: I mean, maybe it was just that mass number. Maybe 50 is just perfect. Maybe 99. [01:24:41] Speaker B: No, dude, I watched that sister wife sometimes Miami, and I'm like, this just sounds like a mess. Like, there is no way I would want more than one. I barely want one. [01:24:58] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, here's the problem with that fundamentally, is that women hate women. And it's not always out there out in the open. I think on a fundamental level, even. Even big country and sweet little number four, I think that deep down, on a cosmic level, they hate each other and they. They are trying to destroy each other. [01:25:33] Speaker B: Well, even still, here's the bad side of it. Not only do they hate each other women, but now when your lover of life and you get into a disagreement, he goes over to that other woman that you. [01:25:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:25:51] Speaker B: Instinctively hate. [01:25:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yep. I mean, that would just exacerbate this hatred that already exists between all women. And this is why they're fighting. They're fighting over the men, essentially, is what's. What they hate each other for. [01:26:08] Speaker B: I mean, I did it for a little bit. Didn't last long. It was upset of sisters, but it wasn't at the same time. Like one was like, hey, you get him Sunday through Wednesday. I get them Thursday, Friday, Saturday, you know, that's bad. Yeah, it didn't last long. It lasted like the first. First weekend. And the Sunday girl did not like that. Yeah, she wanted Friday or Saturday. It was just. [01:26:37] Speaker A: Well, it should have been Saturday through Wednesday or whatever. [01:26:42] Speaker B: Just did the 223, you know? 223. You know. [01:26:53] Speaker A: It's like in Goodfellas when they're like, Friday was for the wives, and Saturday was for the girlfriends. I might have had that backwards. Number five, brain fog. [01:27:09] Speaker B: What's another one? [01:27:10] Speaker A: Sorry. We don't even. We don't have to finish the list. You were getting into something interesting when I brought this up, so we can. We can go back to that if you want. [01:27:19] Speaker B: What? When I get an interesting. [01:27:23] Speaker A: I don't know, I just remember saying, oh, I've got a list of solutions to the top. [01:27:28] Speaker B: No, I like it. I like it. Well, I mean, that's kind of where I was gonna go with. Yeah, with it is like, hey, there's certain. Helps. Yeah. But no, I'm. I'm in agreement. Go ahead. I'd like you to keep going, actually. [01:27:40] Speaker A: Okay. Number five, we got brain fog and trouble concept. Concentrating, slow thinking, indecision, forgetfulness. This is something I've definitely had for the last, like, 10 years, but not before that. Like, I definitely. There's definitely a moment where it came to fight it. We reduce cognitive load. I'm a big fan of this. It says write things down instead of holding them. So I'm a big to do list guy. I don't want to think about the shit I have to do until I've got the time to do it. I bring it up. I don't, you know, don't have to remember a bunch of stuff. Big on the calendar, big on getting stuff out of my head so that I can think and then break tasks into absurdly small steps. And we've talked a lot about that. I think that's. [01:28:35] Speaker B: I'm not going to lie. I'm a big task guy at work. I have. I live by a list. [01:28:39] Speaker A: Yes. [01:28:40] Speaker B: I'm the same way. Don't want to think about it until I got to do it. [01:28:44] Speaker A: I'll even write, like, when I'm reading a book. And, like, there's a thing about the Bible that I want to note in my Bible. I'll even write that in there just so I don't forget, and then I can get back to the book and not think about. [01:29:00] Speaker B: Yeah, dude. I live by, like, saying, a certain company that has Gmail and. And being like, hey, remind me at this time to write this down. Remind me at this time to put that in. In the Bible. Do this at work. Call so and so. Text so and so. I mean, like, I live by that for sure. [01:29:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I use todoist. I. Dude, I had a task manager that I loved so much because they had this feature where the center column was all of your current stuff. And if you swiped it right, it meant you were done with it. And if you swiped it left, it meant you were going to reschedule. But it had this feature that no other to do app I've ever seen has, and that is you could swipe some. You could snooze something for like three, three hours and just focus on, like, what you can do right now. But no other app has that. Every other app is like, this is the day. This is just all of today's tasks on one page. And you could also change when your day started. So all apps start at midnight. So if you're up past midnight, all of tomorrow's tasks flood in. But this app had. You could start it at 6. So if I was up till 3am working on something, I wouldn't see tomorrow's shit until I woke up the next day, you know, so. Great. [01:30:31] Speaker B: That's cool. See, I had a task manager, and I don't know what he did, but that dude, he got our family the most production of cotton throughout the year. Like, and when he left. When he left, though, let me tell you, we had to give up the farm shortly after. You know, I'm. I digress. Go on, though. [01:30:52] Speaker A: I think you mean task master. [01:30:56] Speaker B: Ah, that's. [01:30:58] Speaker A: Although I'm for sure going to start calling it my taskmaster. [01:31:07] Speaker B: All right. [01:31:08] Speaker A: Irritability or emotional shutdown. Snapping numbness, low patience to fight it. Check basics first. Make sure you've eaten, rested, and make sure you're not overstimulated. Step away early when overwhelmed, not after blowing up. I may or may not have yelled at a child today at the play place that we go to. Moving on number seven. [01:31:39] Speaker B: Well, no, no, no, that's. Let's go back to that because that's actually something I am trying to address. Not to refer back to the book, but I'm trying to address this in the book. And it's actually. It's called the emotional firewall. Okay. And so, you know, again, this is kind of like from boyhood survival to manhood significance. A boy reacts, a man responds, you know, and a lot of this is just about mastering yourself, but it's. It's creating that firewall, that little gap that gives you three seconds. And that's all it is, three seconds, you know, and so it's easy to say three seconds, but in the midst of fire, how, like, how does one apply. Apply that time frame to pause and respond instead of break out and react. And so the mechanics of the pause, you must Physically insert time between stimulus and response. So whatever your daughter did and your response in those three seconds, your brain moves a signal from the emotional center of the prefrontal corner cortex. I'm sorry, to the prefrontal cortex. And that's from the. I want to say it's like the amygdala. Amygdala or whatever it is. Amygdala, amygdala. There we go. It moves it from there to your prefrontal cortex in those three seconds. And so the drill to kind of help you with this, you must build the muscle memory of the pause. And so, you know, basically daily, it's an inconvenience drill. Every day, life hands you minor irritations. You know, like you were saying, you're at the therapist office, slow wifi, red light when you're late, spilled coffee, whatever it may be. These are not annoyances, but they are reps in the gym of emotional control. So that's how you kind of got to look at it. [01:33:47] Speaker A: Hell, yeah. [01:33:47] Speaker B: And so the task is identify one minor irritation. Every day, instead of sighing, cursing, or tensing up, execute a three second physical pause, breathe, relax your shoulders, then proceed. The goal is to teach your body that it does not have permission to tighten up every time the world doesn't go your way. And therefore, you can't. You know, you're trying to fight the reaction and blow up and instead create a response. [01:34:20] Speaker A: Just the other day, I was writing down in my journal. I wrote down, like, what are. What's everything bothering me right now? And what's like, one small thing I can do to start fixing that, Whether it's my mindset, whether it's circumstances, all that I wrote down. Today I got frustrated over something very trivial, and I wrote down as a solution, reframe inconveniences as opportunities to learn patience and exercise wisdom. It's exactly what you're saying. It's like a rep, right? Yeah, that's exactly it. Is that like. And it's. It's worked. And rest in peace to Scott Adams, because he's. He's the one with his reframe your brain book that got me thinking about reframing things. But it's absolutely true, dude. When you're looking for the opportunity, word it that way. It's an opportunity to practice. What did I say? Learn patience and exercise wisdom. Or like you said, it's a rep. A rep. And what. [01:35:31] Speaker B: Like a gym rep? It's. It's basically a rep for your mind. [01:35:34] Speaker A: Where you're a rep for your mind. Yeah. Exactly. And it's like now, now these aren't inconveniences now. These are the things you were looking for, the minor little things you were looking for to, to learn wisdom and to become a more wise, more confident person. It's awesome. [01:35:55] Speaker B: Yeah, they're actually reps in the gym of emotional control. [01:35:59] Speaker A: That's what it was. Okay, that's what it was. Reps in the gym of emotional control. I like that. And for the record, it wasn't my daughter I yelled at. I yelled at someone else's kid. [01:36:10] Speaker B: Oh, I think a great place for me to exercise this is on the road. Yes. I hate, I hate, I hate other drivers. And so I've been trying to take a step, let it go, move forward, you know, not. Not feel like I'm God's. I'm God's, you know, guy to get everybody back and keep everybody in line around me. You know what I mean? [01:36:36] Speaker A: Like, you know, you're his angel of death. [01:36:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:36:42] Speaker A: That's the funniest framing for road rage I've ever heard. I'm God's angel of death. [01:36:51] Speaker B: I'm like, God's like, hall monitor on the road. [01:36:54] Speaker A: Oh, man, it really is so stupid. I. I'm the worst dude. Like, and I've. I don't do it when my daughter's in the car, but when I'm alone, it's like, oh, you're tailgating me. I'm gonna go 30 miles an hour. Oh, you're going around me. I'm gonna go 70 miles an hour. Like, it makes no sense. I'm not, I'm not even consistent with my own fucked up, made up principle that I'm trying to enforce. What am I even. I'm just antagonizing people and I feel like the justice guy, someone. [01:37:29] Speaker B: Yeah, that's how I feel. I'm God's justice. So. But, but let me ask you, man, you're. You got someone coming up on you. What, what is the issue of just, like getting out, letting them pass, get back in? [01:37:43] Speaker A: Well, it's not. It just feels like such a. It's like, dude, I'm in my lane doing my thing, and you decide you're gonna go 30 miles over the speed limit. And now that's my problem. Like, we're all just going the speed limit, bruh. [01:38:01] Speaker B: Okay? So for me, to be fair, and. [01:38:03] Speaker A: I do it, I ride, I ride the far right lane a lot more than I used to. So if you're tailgating me in, in the slow lane, you're the one who has to move. [01:38:13] Speaker B: Okay. [01:38:13] Speaker A: You know? [01:38:14] Speaker B: Yeah, you're right. I. I don't do that. The. I'm left laying in it, and it just bothers me when I'm left leaning it. And, like, I'm coming up, and I'm usually coming up with a couple cars behind me that have also agreed that this is the speed we want to go, you know, 85. And. And these cars, you know, they just sit there and you're like, what? Like, really? [01:38:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:38:36] Speaker B: Now when I see someone coming up on me, whether they're going 90, 185, and I'm going 80, it don't matter. I'm like, oh, shoot, let me get out. [01:38:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:38:46] Speaker B: They pass, I get right back in. It's that easy. Like, it is literally that easy. [01:38:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:38:50] Speaker B: I didn't lose a spot, you know what I mean? I just got out, got back in. These other people, man, they'll make you work to get in front of them, bro. Like, they. They're just like, nah, no, I'm regulating. It's 60, it's 70. No one's going over 70 on this. On this. In front, not. Not behind me. Yeah, I hate that. And they're usually Tesla drivers, so I'm not going to lie. [01:39:11] Speaker A: Isn't it funny how, like, every 10 years there's, like, the quintessential asshole car? It went from, like, Beamers to Priuses to Teslas, and Hummers were somewhere in between there, too. In. [01:39:25] Speaker B: I don't remember it being Beamers. [01:39:28] Speaker A: What? And you were the worst of them. [01:39:35] Speaker B: Whatever, dude. [01:39:38] Speaker A: In Oklahoma, it's a law that you cannot ride the left lane if you're going slower. So, like, if someone is behind you in the left lane, you have to get over for them. And you're also not supposed to just take the left lane all the way. Like, if the other lanes are open and you're not impeded, you need to be over farther to the right. Like, as far to the right as you can without being impeded by the cars in front of you, basically. And. And that. That has gotten me into a better habit since moving back, because now I just. And I'm talking about side streets, you know, because my. My. I used to just ride the left lane on Geronimo or whatever. And if you want to tailgate me, dude, the right lane's open. Go around off, you know? But now I see it more as, like, okay, we're riding the right lane until someone's going slower than me, and then I'll get over, get in front of them. And hope. Hope no one's got a problem with. [01:40:41] Speaker B: Me in the left road etiquette. [01:40:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Which has helped a lot. It's helped avoid a lot of issues. But yeah, dude, it's just. I take the smallest slight and I just. It just. It's like a personal fucking thing. It's just. It's crazy. No one else is thinking about it that way. The other. You were just some fucking car that the other person felt they needed to get around. And now your whole day is just about making this person pay. You know, it's wild, but great opportunity because they come so often. Great opportunities to reframe and practice patience. They come every single time you're behind the wheel. So, like, yeah, it's in it. So to say it again, once you view these as opportunities and not inconveniences you, you can't wait for them to come because now you know you can. [01:41:39] Speaker B: Handle them for sure. For sure. [01:41:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:41:43] Speaker B: You do find yourself looking forward to them to get another rep in, you know, what's the next one you got there? [01:41:55] Speaker A: Withdrawal and isolation. Avoiding people canceling plans, ghosting to fight it. Schedule, low pressure connection, like walks or short calls. And be honest instead of disappearing, you know, such as saying, I'm low but still want to contact. [01:42:19] Speaker B: That's, that's, that's. That's something I need to learn to do. [01:42:22] Speaker A: I've never done any of those. [01:42:23] Speaker B: I'm not just. I haven't either, but I mean, that's something I need to learn how to do. Like, even with just people, like. And, you know, there's times where I'm in. I have times where, like, mind you, like, every other week I'm at Miami's house. But when I'm home, the perfect example, when I'm with Miami, I'm not calling my friends and family and talking to them for long periods of time. And when I'm with my friends and family, I'm not in the mood to call Miami and talk for long periods of time. But, like, she almost expects that, you know, and that's kind of been contention in our relationship where she's like, you said you would call me back and you never did. Well, yeah, because I was busy. And I expect you to, like, understand that, you know, like, I wasn't on some road trip or, you know, standing around at work with my thumb up my ass. Like, I was. I had friends or family in my presence. I'm not going to be like, hey, hold on, let me call her real quick. [01:43:36] Speaker A: And like, and then we just check in, fellas. [01:43:40] Speaker B: Yeah, but even still, what am I gonna do? Get on the phone and be like, hey, I just wanted to give you a call to say good night and. Or give you a call even if it's not nighttime. That makes sense if I called to say goodnight. But just get, hey, I just wanted to call and say, you know, hey, I'm. I'm still sitting here with my kids and, and my friends and, you know, but I just wanted to call him, you know, because I said I was going to call you back. Like, yeah, the. Like, you know what I mean? I don't know. [01:44:10] Speaker A: My. My mom is in Arizona visiting her friend right now. And that's, I think, part of what led to the episode because she's gone. And they talk on the phone like three times a day. And it's like, what could you possibly be talking about for 30 minutes at a click? Like three times a day, like throughout the day? What do you. [01:44:40] Speaker B: What, get into a point with Miami, like, because me and Miami could do every time we talk, it's an hour. Yeah, it was 40 minutes to an hour. And I'm getting to a point because, like, I'll call her at work just to see how her day's going. And then she'll want to sit there and talk, but not only to me, but like, to her, to those in her atmosphere. And she'll be like. And you know, I'm telling her, she's like, so, how'd everything go with. With so and so with stretch marks? And I'm like, oh, you know, you took it well. And you know, I was telling him about this. And she was like, yeah, Bob. Oh, yeah, okay. No, yeah, you have a good day too. And she's like, oh, yeah, no, kid, go ahead and keep going. Well, okay, yeah. And I'm like, no. [01:45:15] Speaker A: Finally I was like, look, don't half ass. [01:45:17] Speaker B: I'm not gonna be offended if you tell me we can talk later. I'm not gonna be like, I just want to reassure you. I'm not gonna be offended. In fact, I prefer it. I prefer for you say, hey, you know, I'm kind of in the midst of work. We, you know, like, is it cool if we talk later about this? I would prefer that over sitting there and like every five seconds somebody comes up to you and says something. Client, one of your nurses, one of the doctors. And then you're like, talking with them, not letting them know that you're on the phone with me because I'm in your earbud. But Then like, I'm dead mid sentence while you're talking. And it's like, I'd prefer to just like wait till we're on a home together, I guess, you know? [01:46:03] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's kind of the whole. It's like the Parks and Rec quote where he's like, don't half ass, two things, whole ass, one thing. And it's like, yeah, yeah, don't. Don't have two halves of a conversation with someone on the phone and say, I'm not trying to talk shit on your lady. I don't know why I just went into that whole ramble, but. [01:46:25] Speaker B: No, but that's how. That's how I feel. I just don't want to rudely say it. So I try to just be like nice with it and say, hey, I'm just trying to reassure you. I understand and I'm not upset and I would actually prefer to like, just wait till I have your full attention, you know, I hate that. So. All right. All right. Yeah, yeah. So I wish I can learn the. Hey, I'm being honest. I got about five minutes. [01:46:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:46:52] Speaker B: You know. [01:46:55] Speaker A: Negative self talk and shame the harsh inner critic and feeling like a burden. So we've already talked about this a little bit. Talk to yourself like you would a struggling friend. [01:47:12] Speaker B: And down the straw. [01:47:20] Speaker A: But yeah, it kind of goes back to like, Well, I don't know. It's kind of the opposite of what I said actually, because it was like I had more empathy thinking of myself in that situation than the other way around. But this is kind of saying like, imagine a friend was struggling. You. You wouldn't cast them out or feel like they were a burden, you know? [01:47:43] Speaker B: Yeah. You wouldn't be like, yeah, you failed. You're right. You are a fucking failure. [01:47:49] Speaker A: Yeah. There's like three people on the planet that I would be that mean to, you know, Like. Yeah, I know. Probably close. Like I've. I have known in my life probably close to a thousand people and there's three that I would like, say some heinous shit to if I had the chance. You know what I mean? Like, it's really. [01:48:13] Speaker B: Do I know any? [01:48:15] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. I think KO deserves a little bit, I think. [01:48:24] Speaker B: Okay, Pastor. [01:48:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:48:30] Speaker B: Okay. That's what I thought it was. [01:48:31] Speaker A: Okay. Probably T.Q. and I might. You know what? Given recent events, might as well throw it at JK as well. Cuz he actually ran out on his wife and stole all of her money and. [01:48:47] Speaker B: Okay. [01:48:48] Speaker A: Ran off with some chick from the church. But yeah, it's like you just Got. [01:48:53] Speaker B: You got a lineup of pastors you would do this to? [01:48:55] Speaker A: Yeah, now that I'm thinking about it, it's mostly pastors. I like, I thought I had some friends or something that I've lost contact with, but like, no, like would be like an example of someone who I think would be on that list. And then when I really think about it, I'm like, nah, I want his good. At the end of the day, I don't want to hang out with him, but like, I don't wish him ill or any. Even though he's just been an asshole to me every time I've ever been around him, I just don't want to be around him, you know what I mean? Who are like, like the other people I listed are like criminals in my heart, you know what I mean? [01:49:33] Speaker B: Yeah, one's an. The other three took advantage. [01:49:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So anyways, yeah, so we kind of already touched on that. Loss of motivation, difficulty starting tasks, stuck frozen, procrastinating. This is probably my most common depression or anxiety symptoms. And it's the same thing we've been talking about. Start with the smallest possible action or set time based goals, like five minutes of something instead of the outcome. So you know, just set a timer for five minutes that you're gonna clean your room. You don't have to worry about finishing. You're just gonna clean for five minutes. You know, that's so much easier to wrap your head around than I gotta clean this whole fucking room, you know? [01:50:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:50:30] Speaker A: And then finally we've got thoughts about death or wanting to disappear. Passive death wishes or indifference toward living to fight it. Tell someone immediately. Silence strengthens these thoughts. Reduce isolation and stressors first. Clarity often returns after safety. Okay, so that's my whole list. [01:50:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that suicide one was my big one. I just always felt like a burden to people. Felt like they'd be better off without me. Some hard questions at the intersection of mindset and depression sit with these. What am I calling who I am? That might actually be what I learned to survive. If change were possible, what would I be afraid to lose? What story do I tell myself to avoid the risk of hope? And am I more committed to being right about my limits or discovering them? I don't know about all that. [01:51:41] Speaker A: That third one. Read that again. [01:51:44] Speaker B: What story do I tell myself to avoid the risk of hope? [01:51:50] Speaker A: So kind of where my mind goes on that one is like, I would have hope that I could get a much better job and have a lot more responsibility and obviously higher pay, but the story I would tell myself is that I just can't handle that kind of thing or that I'm not qualified for it. Is that kind of what they're saying? [01:52:16] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, like, you know. Yeah, in that situation, for sure. I think in the situation. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe in the situation of depression, what would your hope be? But definitely in your career path, I could see that definitely applying to. [01:52:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, it'd be. It'd be like, the paralysis of, like, not progressing in life because I don't have the energy to tackle what needs to be done to get that better job. [01:52:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I guess I could definitely see that. I can. I can see that. I think. I think some people set themselves up for failure because they're afraid to fail. [01:53:04] Speaker A: Mm. [01:53:05] Speaker B: Like, they don't do it at all because they're afraid to fail. Where. I think there's so much to learn from failure. You know, it's like. You know when people ask, like, what's the best way to describe fixed and growth mindset with. Because I tell them, you know, it's helped me talk to my children differently. I'm like, well, what do you mean? I said, well, I don't tell my daughters they're beautiful because of the. Their looks. Why? Because if they get in a car accident, their identity's gone. Instead, I tell them they're beautiful because of their personality and their character, their traits. Your kindness. Like, they're. That. I don't. I don't tell them they're smart because of their grades. I tell them they're. They're. I. I'm not. I'm not complimenting the outcome. I'm complimenting the process. Yeah. I am proud of you not because you are an A student. I'm proud of you because you're putting in the work to get. To get. To achieve these grades. Like, your commitment to finding the answers and studying is. Is astonishing. Like, I'm so proud of that because, like. [01:54:24] Speaker A: Because if they get two hours of sleep before a test and they flunk the test, they're not suddenly stupid because they got an F. But if you taught them that they're smart because they got an A, then you are kind of teaching them that they're dumb because they got an F. Right? [01:54:39] Speaker B: Well, yeah. That they never want to put themselves in situations where an F is even possible. [01:54:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:54:45] Speaker B: They just won't take the test. I know. I know. That's not, like, really doable. At school. You got to take the test. But they try and put them. They'll always try and put themselves in an environment where instead of pushing the limit and possibly failing, they will put themselves in an environment where they don't fail and they can't fail, you know, and they would rather not do something than to fail. So, you know, you're like, hey, why don't you try that? No, I'm good. I'm good. I don't need to do that. You know what I mean? It's. It's kind of that mentality, but, you know, so I. I now praise the process and not the outcome. I'm so, you know, like, hey, you got an if. That sucks. Like, I know it's got to suck with all the work you put into that. Like, you put a lot of work in that. I'm so proud of you for the work you put into it, you know? Oh, you got an A. I am so proud of the work you put into that. You know what I mean? It's. It's the process of it. Yeah. So it has ref. It has reframed how I talk to my children, for sure, But I also talk to myself that way now, too. You know, you're not a failure. You're not a burden. You had a bad moment, you had a bad day. You know, when I look at my failed marriage, I kind of look at that in the sense of I wasn't. I wasn't emotionally mature enough for that relationship or to, like, support that relationship. I forget how I. How I say it in this, but it was instead of like, oh, I failed at that relationship. It's more now of. It's more now, like, I wasn't mature in that time to be in a relationship of that nature. Like, I just was not. Not there. So here it is, actually. It says, I lack the emotional maturity to lead that relationship. I must acquire those skills before I try again. So that's kind of how I look at it now instead of, like, is crazy, you know, what do you do? You know? Yeah. So it's. It's. It's just stuff like that. I. I think the retraining, reframing, as you were saying earlier, of the brain, its thoughts, looking for those little. Little goals, you know, and not so much. Not so much setting the big goals, because, yes, you can. You know, when you. You hear this a lot about runners, you hear this a lot about people. People who compete over long, long situations or long courses, they're not thinking about the finish line. In fact, somebody swam across. Forget what he swam across, but it was really cold, and it was. It was like an ocean or a lake or something that was freezing. And they were like, no one. No one had really done it before. But your body gives up before your mind does. And they were saying they put a flag every hundred meters that he could see because all he had to do was make it to the next flag, make it to the next flag, make it to the next flag. And you hear runners say, I don't think about the finish line. I'm thinking about. All I got to do is make it to the next turn. All I got to do is make it to the next turn. They're just running to the next turn constantly until they reach the finish line. It's the same thing. You're setting a goal. I want to lose. I have a goal of how much money I want to save this year. So I just broke it down into smaller, smaller amounts every two weeks. I want to save this much. All I gotta do is reach that goal. That's my only goal right now. That as far as, like, saving, part of it is to reach. To pull out this. This much for this month, because that's how much I'm supposed to have at the end of this month. In order for me to be at that goal at the end of the year, all I got to do is pull out that. That dollar amount. That's it. You know, I'm not looking at, like, oh, I take it all out now, and if I need some of it. No, no, no, no, no. I want to have this much savings. This is what I got to pull out. This is what I got to pull out. That's. That's. That's it. And so, yeah, it's the same with. With our. With. With depression, I think, is set the small goals and start to retrain your brain, like, reframe it into. You know what I mean? Like, I tell myself now I have to do hard. I have to do hard. I'm. I'm prepping myself to do hard. You know, nothing's going to be easy. Just embrace the suck. As the. As the Marines say, embrace the suck. [02:00:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:00:10] Speaker B: Let's go. [02:00:11] Speaker A: Yep. [02:00:14] Speaker B: So there's just different models, like, our thought processes I have from before, where I don't struggle with. I haven't had suicidal ideation in a long, long, long time. You know, like a couple months after my divorce or my separation even, I stopped. I just kind of threw it out. Like, there is. That's not even an option no more. So get over that. Yeah. Pick up Your put on your pants, Put on your boots. Let's fucking, let's go. Let's start walking this shit out. [02:00:45] Speaker A: Yep. [02:00:49] Speaker B: So. And I'm not saying that's for everyone. You know, you brought up the. You brought up the fact that some of it is chemically imbalanced. [02:00:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I wonder how much of that can be affected as well. Because, I mean, I don't know. I mean, it's. It's kind of like the study I was talking about where they made the people bite the pencil and, like, stuff started to be funnier because they were already smiling, you know, it's like, I don't know, it seems like that affected their chemical balance at some point, you know, so, like, there, there probably still are things that we can do even with a chemical imbalance that help, you know, for sure. [02:01:39] Speaker B: And I think, dude, I think again, I, I look at this with this book I'm trying to. To write. Everything is, and this is not just with men. Everything is, Is connected with people. You're affected by what you eat. You're affected by your workout. You're affected by those around you. You're affected by what you subject yourself to, what you read, what you watch. If you don't read, if you don't watch. Your engagements, your social life, your professional life, your career. You know, like, it all is. It affects who you are in some fashion, it affects how you think it affects. And that's going to affect how you walk it out. That's going to affect how you view life. That's going to affect your lens on the world. It all affects every. Everything affects everything. There's no compartmentalization in inside. You can't sit here and say, you know, I'm going to have physical discipline and go to the gym every day and think that, you know, or, I mean, dude, I remember when I was cheating on my, my wife, the crappy part was, is I couldn't. I couldn't play it off. I couldn't come home and act like everything was fine. Like, when I was cheating on her, I came home and wanted to fight, wanted to argue, didn't want to. Like, there was just a disconnect. You know what I mean? It wasn't that I was intentionally coming home looking for a fight, but I intentionally came home, didn't want to talk to you or engage with you. And I was like, you know, low, low patience, you know, you want to talk about something that I don't care to talk like, dude, I was a ruder. You know what I mean? Like, it, it all affects, you know, you have, you have an addiction or you're, you know, you struggle with porn. It affects how you engage with men. Whether you look them in the eye and they don't even know it. They don't know you have that. You know, you're fuck. You're dental, your weight, you know, I mean, like, I know men that have like one tooth. They are not confident men because they know they have one fucking tooth. And here I come, or whoever they. They're talking about to comes up with at least, you know, 15 in their mouth. And they're just like, you know what I mean? They're like, like they know that that person is looking at their 1 to 2, 3 teeth. Same with weight. Someone fit comes up. It's the halo effect. Someone fit comes up, you automatically think they got everything else in life in order. Someone heavy set comes up, it's the horn or the cloud effect. You automatically think they're disorganized. They lack discipline. That, and it's not just like, oh, they struggle with weight. Diabetic. No, no, no, no. You're like, your mind automatically thinks everything else that they do is disorganized and overweight as well. And so it's, it's, it all. There is no. I'm healthy in this area only. Like, you have to, you, you, you, you, you have to look at it as a whole and, and look at like, okay, it could be my food intake, you know, maybe McDonald's every day is not really beneficial for my headspace. [02:05:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:05:04] Speaker B: You know? Yeah. So I don't know, man. I, I think reframing your mind is like, you have to almost reframe your life. [02:05:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:05:15] Speaker B: And you don't do it all overnight. It's all baby step stuff, dude. You know? It's all baby step stuff. Yeah. You know, you don't necessarily have to hit the gym tomorrow, but you could maybe not eat a couple Twinkies tonight. One instead of three, you know what I mean? [02:05:30] Speaker A: Instead of three. That's actually, that's a great point. I'm glad you brought up the food because everyone needs to go listen to Doc Amen on Tucker Carlson a few weeks ago. He just, he's a neurologist and he just breaks down like what sugar and nicotine and porn and all these things are doing to your brain. And he said, actually, yeah, like, fat people are damaging their brains and so they are a little stupider. He's like, you know, I mean, he didn't say it like that, but that, that's you know, what he. What he is saying. He's, you know, big is not beautiful. It's killing you. And sugar is, you know, causing your depression, probably. And, you know, the nicotine's not helping. The caffeine's not helping. The weed is killing you. You know, like, he. He just really, like, goes to all the places you're not allowed to go when it comes to diet. And he says the first thing he does for depression treatment is. Is an elimination diet. So I. I really should have thought to talk about that sooner, but I'm glad that we brought it up here at the end because. Because, yeah, apparently that is very much a part of depression. Garbage in, garbage out. [02:06:46] Speaker B: It's. It's. I'm realizing as I'm looking at everything that. That I'm trying to write this curriculum on is it all influences everything. And it's funny, because this just started out as something I wanted to help men become refined gentlemen, you know, or with intentionality, maybe. And it became something of like, no, we're gonna build you. Not build you, but we're gonna give you the tools to rebuild yourself, if that's what you want to do in every aspect, you know, because you can't just be someone that looks good but is stupid. You know, you have to kind of learn some manners. You have to. You have to follow through with who you are. I want to give you tools to tie a tie, but at the same time, like, I don't know, man. I'm learning so much as I'm just going through it, you know, and that's kind of like, it's challenging me to be better, you know? But then again, I'm. We're in a country that just has the worst options of food. I don't know what to trust, though, you know? What do you trust? We just go, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like they even pour crap on our vegetables and our meats are processed or printed. You know what I mean? Like. [02:08:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:08:03] Speaker B: How do I know if my steak's actually a real steak or if it's just a printed steak, you know? Yeah. [02:08:09] Speaker A: I mean, it's tough. [02:08:12] Speaker B: So. I don't know, man. [02:08:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:08:19] Speaker B: But I know it's probably better than the Ding Dongs. [02:08:23] Speaker A: There is actually an app. I have an app called Yuka. Y U K A, I believe. And you scan the barcode. [02:08:34] Speaker B: That's Yuka. [02:08:35] Speaker A: Yuka. Maybe you might be right. [02:08:38] Speaker B: I mean, the. There's a vowel that follows the consonant. [02:08:41] Speaker A: Did I even spell it right? Yep. I think you're right. It's Yuka. What an idiot. You scan. You scan the barcode and it basically, like, gives you a score. One out of a hundred of, like, how bad something is. 100 being good. And I think it needs to be like, 70 or over to be good. And 100 is, like, excellent. But it'll break down, like. Yeah, it's got these preservatives in it. It's got these dyes in it. It's got, you know. So, like, that's a pretty good step if you don't know what to eat. [02:09:20] Speaker B: That's cool. Yeah, I'll have to check it out. [02:09:22] Speaker A: Yeah, it's pretty cool. Well, we're over two hours. What do you think? [02:09:29] Speaker B: Yep. It's been a good night. I like it, man. [02:09:32] Speaker A: Yeah, this is a good one. [02:09:34] Speaker B: I wish you the best, Debbie. [02:09:37] Speaker A: You've. You've been great. Robin and Debbie were both girl names. [02:09:43] Speaker B: Hey, you are always welcome to call me if you need to vent, talk, or work through something. Yeah. [02:09:50] Speaker A: Honestly, even through the podcast, you've done quite a bit of that for me, so I appreciate you. [02:09:59] Speaker B: I appreciate you even though you. If I was struggling with those things, I know you don't answer your phone or text except for, like, wow, I don't know what that's about. I don't know what it's about, but I'm like, hey, dude, send you a text. I don't hear back for, like, hours. I call. I don't think there's been. Okay, there's maybe been twice I've called and you've actually answered your phone. [02:10:20] Speaker A: I'm going to push back here. I feel like I've answered my phone for you quite a bit lately. [02:10:27] Speaker B: Quite a bit. When we're recording, go listen to your last couple voices. Nails from me. All right. But no, I get it, man. You're. You're. I just seem like. I feel like you're someone that doesn't carry. Like your phone's not on you 247 or mine is definitely not. [02:10:48] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I left. I left it in the car for like two hours today, actually, while we were in the play place. This does kind of irresponsible right for you. [02:11:01] Speaker B: No, I think it's awesome. I don't have that kind of power. [02:11:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:11:07] Speaker B: All right. All right, man. Well, unlike the real Robin, this is not good night forever. So I will see you next week, my friend. [02:11:17] Speaker A: Alrighty. This has been pseudonyms, everybody. Thanks for listening. Later. [02:11:23] Speaker B: Love you, man.