003: Coughing "Bullshit" at a Gay Wedding

[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're up, man. Introduce the. The podcast tonight. [00:00:04] Speaker B: All right, welcome back, everybody, to the Pseudonyms podcast. We are coming to you not live. My faithful co host, Tyson is with me tonight. Tyson, how we feeling, Oswald? [00:00:22] Speaker A: We're feeling good. We are feeling good. [00:00:24] Speaker B: Who's your co host tonight? [00:00:27] Speaker A: Yeah, Oswald, that's you. Who'd you think I was talking to? [00:00:36] Speaker B: Well, we did just have an inauguration, so I guess that's appropriate. All right, so what did we talk about last week? We. We were talking about. Fuck, we'll probably cut this. That. That I hit such a speed bump right now. What the fuck am. [00:00:57] Speaker A: We're keeping it. We're keeping it. So last week we. We talked about journaling. That's right. And the. You know, how we use it and so forth, as well as a bunch of other shit. So I think this week we had talked about cutting people off because of continued sin or unrepentant sin. And this conversation was sparked because we have a mutual friend who for years would share his. The story about his sister being homosexual and the fact that they would not, as a family, like, they wouldn't allow her to come to events, functions. You know, they all kind of wrote her letters saying if she doesn't repent, then, you know, she can't be attending these. These events as a family. And I thought it was really harsh. And I just. I don't know. I. I don't know. It just never set well with me. I mean, like, he probably told me that nine, ten years ago, and it still has been something I've contemplated on at least yearly, at a minimum. [00:01:59] Speaker B: Yeah. And I. I misremembered it. I think you got a lot more info on it than I did because I only heard about it in, like, one devotional. But what I remember hearing was that they. They would welcome the sister but not her partner. And. And even that is kind of. Kind of was uncomfortable for me. Like. Like, I get it. I get, like, if you did draw that line, that would be like a more tolerable line, you know, family wise. But it still was like, that's not. It didn't feel like a path to get her to repent. If I could word that any more poorly. [00:02:43] Speaker A: No, that was perfect. But, yeah, I remember we talked about it one day myself and. And. And him. We sat on the patio of the. I noticed she didn't like me saying the name of the house, so we. [00:02:58] Speaker B: Sat on the path. The only reason I cut it was because my parents still own that house. So I just. [00:03:05] Speaker A: I figured that Because a lot of other addresses were still there. Our street names were still in there. [00:03:10] Speaker B: Yeah. When I lived off 10101 sage crest. [00:03:18] Speaker A: So when I did live on the house on the hill, he'd come over one evening and we sat and talked about it. And he had shared that. Yeah. You know, they. They told her she couldn't come to family functions. And. And, you know, and it was. It was kind of like, for me, I was like, whoa, dude. Like, that seems a little harsh. Like, that seems crazy to me. It just. It did seem crazy to me. But again, you know, I've. I've had a daughter, and I figured I'm going to just label my. My children as 1, 2, 3, and 4. So. [00:03:58] Speaker B: Okay. Is one oldest? [00:04:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:02] Speaker B: Which ones. Which one's. [00:04:06] Speaker A: You'd be daughter number five. Oh, my gosh. I always talked about, you know, people ask, like, man, you have four daughters. Did you ever want a boy? And I'm like, yeah, I always wanted a boy. But, you know, the three boys that we adopted were all, like, chicks when it came to sports. Like, they. They threw really awkward. Like, they just. They were like, not. They were basically girls. I was like, my daughters throw better than these cats. You know, it was. I still talk about how he threw a football. It's so weird. He throws with his. The leg of his throwing arm forward. [00:04:47] Speaker B: Oh, right, right. It takes you a second to visualize it, and then you're like, oh, man. [00:04:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:54] Speaker B: Yeah. I think. I think Dustin Hoffman did that in Rain Man. [00:04:58] Speaker A: So. So, yeah, so let's. Let's dive into this. This cutting people off because. Oh. And so where I was going with that was daughter number three had a period in her life where she was attracted to females, thought, you know, she. She always voiced that I will marry a male. But I do, you know, I do want. I do. I am curious, or I am attracted to females. And so with that, I've always thought about, man, I would. You know, if she did take that route, would I ever cut her off and not embr. [00:05:33] Speaker B: You know, I've. I've thought about it with my daughter, who is only a year or 13 months almost. I've thought about a lot of crazy stuff that I should not be dwelling on in the future, but I've thought about, like, what if she was gay? What if she, you know, took some kind of alternative lifestyle that I just, like, could not accept? You know, what if she wanted to be trans? What if she married a black guy? You know, all this stuff that I. I'm Just kidding. I'm just kidding. Please, everyone. I'm sorry to everyone. [00:06:14] Speaker A: I'm not gonna lie. Since the first episode when you're like, don't laugh. We don't want to know. It's a joke. I was like, all right. When he makes racist comments, now I'm not going to laugh at all. [00:06:25] Speaker B: That's terrible. That's not what a friend does. No. I knew it was wrong when I said it, but, you know, I've thought about that, and it's like, yeah, man. I mean, I'm certainly not gonna, like, wave a fucking rainbow flag or anything for you. And you're gonna know how I feel about it, but you're definitely not cut off. And I'll have the fuck, whatever you're dating over for Thanksgiving. You know, like, I couldn't. I don't think I could. And she's only 13 months old. I'm not even that attached in the grand scheme of things. You know, I could probably cut her off right now. [00:07:08] Speaker A: Yeah, it takes a little bit. It takes a little bit. Takes about two years before you're like, you know what? I actually like you. You're kind of cool. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, we walked away from this thing. We were gonna do some research on it, look through the. Look through, you know, our guiding principles in the Bible and, you know, as well as kind of just get some input. I visited three or four websites to get different perspectives on it. You know, some of them were unsatisfactory, and I want to say JP was one of them. He takes a really. Yeah, he takes a really harsh view on it. Not. Not who. J.P. morgan. J.P. john Piper. [00:07:52] Speaker B: J.P. morland. Oh, John Piper. [00:07:55] Speaker A: Yeah, John Piper takes an actual. He's a. He's. He's a very rigid guy, I think, when it comes to. And kudos to him, you know, for. For having certain convictions and standing by him. But. Yeah, I don't know if I could get behind that. [00:08:11] Speaker B: So what was his. His take? [00:08:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I forget. It was all. It was. It was like First Corinthians 5. Like, you know, like, it's the. What do they call it? Holy ostracism. [00:08:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:24] Speaker A: And so, yeah, I just. I couldn't. Couldn't get behind that. [00:08:29] Speaker B: My wife studied under and was a TA for. [00:08:36] Speaker A: Oh, really? [00:08:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. They knew each other pretty well. I was a little jealous of him. [00:08:42] Speaker A: They knew each other pretty well. Like, biblically. [00:08:45] Speaker B: No, but he hit on her and stuff, for sure. [00:08:52] Speaker A: I just want to make it known, you know, he did make some moves. [00:08:56] Speaker B: But so Hashtag me too. Or us two, I guess if I. If the husband's the one who has to blow the whistle on it. [00:09:08] Speaker A: All right, so, you know, so Piper says in First Corinthians 5, 11, speaking to believers, not unbelievers. Which, you know, makes sense. You know, but he said this was. [00:09:18] Speaker B: The focal point of my study, by the way, was this chapter. [00:09:23] Speaker A: Yes. Mine as well. Mine as well. It does say, believers living in open, unrepentant sin give a false message and a false testimony to how to the standard that Christians live by. So that made sense to me. But he said, you also have to look at family faithfulness versus church discipline. Children obey parents. Wives are faithful to husbands, even unbelieving husbands. But if the child is grown, that is different. Then you follow 1st Corinthians 5 and wholly ostracize them. That was his take. And again, to me it was kind of like, really? [00:10:05] Speaker B: Why? [00:10:07] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:10:08] Speaker B: That seems so arbitrary. [00:10:12] Speaker A: To find. Arbitrary for our listeners who don't know what that means. [00:10:16] Speaker B: Capricious. I'm just kidding. It seems like that there's no specific reason for that. He just sort of blindly chose that as the rule. [00:10:30] Speaker A: Cool, thanks. I was wondering what that meant. Alright. [00:10:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I didn't define it. Well, let's actually define it based on random choice or personal whim rather than any reason or system. So like, why, why do you just randomly choose that grown children are now the church and not your family? [00:10:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, yeah, that, that, that I could see that being arbitrary in the general sense of him using it. I didn't think it was arbitrary. I was like, well, he's supporting it with First Corinthians 5, but in the sense of, like, there's a differentiation between adult and child. I get that. [00:11:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And that I've kind of given away like the, the main punch of what I figured out since we talked on the phone about it the last time. So I finally figured out what was confusing me about this passage and about this topic in general, which is that Paul is very specifically talking about how the church is to conduct church membership with believers. And so there is a difference between, you know, a church member who is saying like, ah, you know, I'm fucking up, you know, versus like, this isn't a sin and I think you should support this, you know, like, those are two completely different things. So what I kind of figured out was like, cutting someone off from church membership and communion and all the benefits of, of that, that is kind of lost on us culturally because you can go to any church and get that back. So, like, we might not be like, fully understanding the gravity of that in, in the first century, but, you know. [00:12:25] Speaker A: But that is something that you do bring up a good point. Going to a different church and kind of, you know, it's. I have. I've had a co worker recently. That train's gonna get picked up. I've had a co worker recently who's claimed Christian. Very, very much. Not really vocal about it, but not denying either. You know, like, when you say godly stuff, like, she supports it. She's not someone that's gonna fight or deny God or, or say the Bible is, you know, or justify her actions by. You can't help who you love. Which, by the way, I want to just address that when, when I've talked to homosexuals or gay people or anybody from the alphabetical community, they, they, they tend to justify it with love. Like, I can't help who I love. And so I always post, by the. [00:13:18] Speaker B: Way, I've heard straight people justify premarital sex the same way. [00:13:23] Speaker A: Okay. [00:13:24] Speaker B: I mean, like, yeah, we had sex, but I love him. I love her. [00:13:28] Speaker A: And. Okay, so here's the argument against anybody that uses love, like, in a relationship. If your partner comes home and says, hey, like, I had an affair on you with a co worker, but don't worry, like, it's not sin, because I love them too. It doesn't justify the, the, the transgression. The transgression on the marriage or the relationship. Love doesn't justify it, you know? Yeah, the response could be love. You know, you're patient, you're trying to. But to say, like, I hurt you because of love, that's not love. It's. It's a perverted view of love. So I've always wondered, though, like, she goes to church and stuff on weekends, and I'm like, dude, how, how do you. How does nobody bring it up to you, not even your parents? Like, how does nobody bring it up to you that you are in direct, like, opposition of God, you know, like of God's desires and, you know, commands, if you will. So I always thought that was weird. I'm sorry about the rant. [00:14:34] Speaker B: No, no, I mean, it's a, It's a really good point. And I mean that. That is, like, we pointed out, like, people all over the spectrum of different kinds of sins will use love as this weird excuse. But the whole point is that you're, you're using this horizontal thing to justify sin. And sin is not first and foremost a Horizontal issue. It's a vertical issue. And, you know, your sins are first and foremost against God. So it's like that. That obviously matters more. Like, what God thinks about this is obviously more problematic for. For sin than, you know, whether or not you love the person you're sitting with. [00:15:17] Speaker A: So where did you land after looking at all this? What else did you find? Where did you. Where did you plant your flag? [00:15:25] Speaker B: I'd say that, like, I'm fine with Matthew 18. Well, I shouldn't say, like, I'm fine with Scripture. Like, obviously, like, Scripture's gonna call the shot here. I'm not saying. I'm not saying, like, I've accepted what Scripture has to say. I'm. I'm fine with churches Enacting Matthew 18 and going through church discipline that way. And the way that Paul describes it in First Corinthians 5 with the guy who was banging his stepmom, but I don't think it's anywhere substantiated that they have to be cut off as friends. I think the punishment was being cut off from church membership, not necessarily friendship, you know, but then. But then also there's. That would come with a litany of qualifiers for. For you on a personal level, if you're going to continue to be friends with this person. And that would go for your friendship with anyone, which is like, make sure that they're not leading you into. Make sure they're not leavening you. You know, which. He uses that analogy in that chapter. But I mean, yeah, I don't. I don't really see on a personal level, if you're gonna live in the world full of unbelievers and full of sinners, I don't know how you're gonna justify, like, cutting off friendship with this one person, you know, But I mean. But then again, I think that version of church discipline is incredibly rare because we really are not. The Bible's not describing someone who's, like, trying to quit drinking. And just like every weekend they, like, ah, they got talked into having a drink and they feel really bad about it, and they're talking to their, like, accountability group or whatever about it. That's not what we're talking. Like, that's not. The guy who gets cut off in First Corinthians 5. The guy in First Corinthians 5 thought what he was doing was awesome. He was like. He was like, you guys have the problem. I've got the solution over here. Look at her. [00:17:33] Speaker A: But it's your dog. [00:17:38] Speaker B: It's not cheating. It's not cheating if it's your dog. [00:17:46] Speaker A: You know what movie that's from? [00:17:48] Speaker B: Road trip. [00:17:49] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. Yeah. Like, she's in Texas, a totally different state. It's not cheating. He's like, yeah, like, it's not cheating if it's your dog, you know, So I did. I did look at some other verses. Matthew 18 was one of them. First Corinthians 7 came into play, but radically Christian. I looked at that website and it was kind of talking about how to deal with it. Like, first pray, love them unconditionally. But I didn't find one by focus on the family. That said acceptance is not approval, and you can love them without bending your beliefs. An idea of this is as a family, we'll share and eat Thanksgiving dinner together, but I'm not going to ask them to pray over it. You know what I mean? Like, so if you have a husband that's unbelieving and, you know, you got the family together, you know, just using a different Christian kind of aspect to this. Not even homosexual or any of the sort, but. And he's not believing, you're not gonna have him bless the meal. You know, you're gonna have someone that you know is a Christian blessing the meal. If you're gonna say a prayer, it's probably not gonna be the unbeliever saying the prayer. You'll get National Lampoons, you know, saying the Pledge of Allegiance or something over it. [00:19:13] Speaker B: On my mom's side of the family, there's. There's about 20 of us that. That gather up for. For holidays and stuff. And I'm one of, like, three people that has ever asked to pray over the meal. And it's like, you look at the three people that are chosen, and it's like, oh, yeah, they're like churchgoers. They know the Bible. Like, who. Whoever's. You know, my aunt is always the one who chooses because it's her house. And it's like, oh, yeah, she knows which ones are actually Christians and she never asks anyone else to pray. [00:19:45] Speaker A: Yeah, it always feels weird, like, you know, after I got out of school of ministry, my cousin had died from, like, an overdose, and we had his funeral at rbc. And so. And they were like, hey, would you kind of be the, you know, the. I don't know. I don't know what you would call it, but basically the guy that kind of holds the ceremony for this and kind of, you know, conducts the. The service for this funeral. First of all, they wanted, you know, they wanted to playlist of funeral Songs. So I'm glad it was a Saturday and no one was at church, you know, and I think. I think was there and. Because he had to do, like, the. The. The audio sound and. What's that? [00:20:32] Speaker B: The sound? [00:20:33] Speaker A: Yeah, the sound. Yeah. [00:20:35] Speaker B: An officiant. [00:20:36] Speaker A: The word. So I was the officiant. So I had to, like, go through their playlist first. And I'm like, nah, we can't play this one. Like, you can't play that kind of music in God's house. Like, you just can't. And then so I'm there. And honestly, knowing, like, where every family member is biblically, I'm like, oh, dude, I gotta make this a call to repentance. Like, I gotta. Like, were you there at the funeral? [00:21:03] Speaker B: No. [00:21:04] Speaker A: Okay. [00:21:04] Speaker B: You might be. [00:21:05] Speaker A: So I went through Psalm 23. You know, it's like the psalm that they wanted on the. On the. The invites or the card or whatever, the. And I was like, okay, well, cool. Let's cover Psalm 23. And the only way I could really tie it in was if you don't believe in Christ, like, this ain't happening for you. Like, there is no, like, comfort in his rod and staff. There is none of this, you know, lying down and green. There's none of it. Like, you don't get none of that. Like, you have to put your faith in him as it was. The. It was a. To me, it was a safe play. You know, I wasn't. I wasn't Paul washering that stuff. You know, I wasn't like, you know, coming in with fire and brimstone. Like, you need to repent, you fall. [00:21:46] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, people. People like you. [00:21:50] Speaker A: Oh, thanks. So the other thing I found, Oswald, was affirm your love for them, but don't affirm the support for the sin. It's like buying them a birthday gift because they're. They're still a child of yours, but not necessarily buying them a wedding gift. [00:22:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. That's a tough one too. Let's talk about that, man. Can you go to the wedding? [00:22:16] Speaker A: Oof. [00:22:17] Speaker B: Fuck. [00:22:18] Speaker A: I. I don't think you can. I don't think you can. [00:22:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I think that to feel right about it, you would have to be so shitty at that wedding. I'm probably not thinking about this the right way, but you would have to just make such a stink about it in order to feel like you weren't selling out. [00:22:49] Speaker A: Like, when they said, does anybody object? You'd be like, oh, well, one thing, like, when they're. [00:22:55] Speaker B: When they're walking down the aisle, you cough really loud and go. [00:23:02] Speaker A: Now's your chance, man. Now's your chance. Frank, she's not here yet. Frank. You can still wait. Get out of this. But Genesis 4. Genesis 4 talks about God's re. Reaction to Cain killing Abel, and he curses him with, like, roaming the earth. However, he protects him at the same time. [00:23:25] Speaker B: Yeah, with the mark. [00:23:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And so unconditional love does not equate to unconditional moral acceptance. So I can still love my child but not necessarily accept it. I thought the best article I came across, or yeah, I'd say article was from Jonathan Lehman at 9 marks. And I don't know if it's a church. Izzy. [00:23:56] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Nine marks is. Is cool. [00:24:00] Speaker A: Oh, okay. And that's where like, the whole birthday but not wedding gift, you know. You know, having him at family dinner but not having him bless the dinner. I thought that was probably the best kind of visual of it. Or, you know, again, love, like, you know, as we read about, is. Is unconditional. It's patient, you know, like, you're. You're not accepting the sin, but you're not gonna. I feel like number two had a best friend. She had a best friend who. [00:24:33] Speaker B: I remember. Yeah, yeah. [00:24:35] Speaker A: Who. Whose two parents were dudes, you know, and were sitting there at this birthday party, and one of the other guys who claimed to be a Christian was like, I don't get, you know, like. And I don't know why he brought it up, man, but I. I mean, I know why he brought it up. It was obvious that these dudes were gay. But he brings it up in, like, almost like a merit. You know, like the white dude that's at a black party, and he's just like, oh, I don't get why people don't like black. You know, white people don't like black people. And he's trying to, like, I don't make him donkeys. Yeah, exactly. You know, he's trying to make himself different from all the other white people in the world. And, you know, so he goes off on this rant about, like, you know, you know, who is it to say, you know, who's. You know, who are we to say who you should love and this and that, and God made everybody. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, I'm gonna be straight up. I don't agree with his lifestyle. My wife is kicking me under the table this time. Like, she's like, don't do it here. Don't do it here. But I'm like, I have To. [00:25:37] Speaker B: They're bringing the cake out right now. You can't do it here. He's got fucking balloons tied to his chair. You can't do it here. [00:25:49] Speaker A: But I. I'm like, look, I don't agree with the lifestyle, but I don't judge your lifestyle. I'm not one to judge you. However, I don't agree with it. With that being said, I feel like if I judge you and condemn you, there's no relationship or opportunity for us to learn from one another. And that's my ultimate goal. My ultimate goal is to be heard and received. Not just heard, but I'm going to be received as well, in the sense that you will listen and contemplate on the things I said and not just dismiss it with, this guy just hates homosexuals. No, I don't just hate homosexuals. [00:26:24] Speaker B: I hate everybody, but I especially hate homosexual. [00:26:31] Speaker A: But at the same time, like, I'm not gonna condemn you for your lifestyle. I want to be able to build a bridge with you so that I can speak life into your lifestyle. So, you know, and they actually invited us over for dinner, like, a month later, which surprised the shit out of both of us. [00:26:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I remember. You wouldn't let her sleep over. And then I kind of stopped hearing about them. [00:26:53] Speaker A: Yeah, we did go to dinner. It was a nice dinner, as you would expect from a flamboyant couple, you know, which. You know, it. It's a dinner I'd be proud of. It's something I'd put together. I ain't gonna lie. I'm a little flamboyant in that way. I heard. [00:27:10] Speaker B: How do you organize your colognes? [00:27:13] Speaker A: Oh, do you see that back there? [00:27:15] Speaker B: Yes. [00:27:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And by season, man, you know, you can't wear a summer cologne in winter. It just doesn't give the same effect. You know, summer colognes are citrusy and. And, you know, they're. They're. You know, they're different than the warm. [00:27:34] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, one. Whatever. What are we doing? What are we doing here? [00:27:39] Speaker A: 20 bucks is 20 bucks, bro. [00:27:42] Speaker B: Hand job still a job, baby. Okay, I'm sorry I so derailed that. [00:27:50] Speaker A: No, you totally, though, opened up a whole nother avenue of me to look at, you know, as being unemployed. I'm like, well, it is a job. So. Yeah, so that's kind of where I ended up at, you know? Like, it was almost the same way I looked at it when my daughter was going through it. Like, I'm still gonna love you. I'm not gonna bring it up. I'M not gonna make it a thing, you know, but, you know, she had kissed one of her girlfriends in front of me, and I was like, look, like three. I get it. Huh? Three. Yeah. And I was like, I get it. But, nah, you know, my view. And, And I think that was very. I didn't tell her in front of her. Her friend, you know, I waited till we were alone, but I just said I thought that was very. A very disrespectful thing to do. You know, you put me in a weird, really weird spot, you know, like, I didn't want to embarrass your friend or you in front of your friend. However, you have to understand your boundaries, you know, and so that's kind of the way I approach things now as a father, I guess, you know, there's. There's boundaries, and I'm comfortable with setting boundaries. [00:28:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Now, two things before I forget. I don't disagree with anything that you said in your. In your telling of what you said to this guy when his fucking birthday cake was coming out. [00:29:13] Speaker A: It was his daughter's birthday. It's the only reason why I was there. [00:29:16] Speaker B: That would be hilarious if it was his, though. And it was like, you know, I just don't really like gay people. Happy birthday. But you said the word judge and condemn. And I think I totally agree with your usage of it because they, they were hearing the correct message that you meant to convey. But I feel like when we talk about judgment, we're really talking about condemnation, like we are. [00:29:45] Speaker A: And I knew you got stuck on that. [00:29:47] Speaker B: For you to say, I, I don't agree with your lifestyle. You've judged it correct. [00:29:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And, and, and I knew you got stuck on that because we judge every day, and people say, who are you to judge me? And my response to them is, okay, let's say you want to have a night out with your spouse. The guy across the street is a known pedophile because he's had a knock on your door and there's things sent out. Are you going to let him babysit your. Your children? No, because you judge the fact that he's a pedophile. So you're not. Yeah, you made a judgment call. You're not condemning him, you know, because he's had this changed life now or whatever it is. But you're also not saying, yeah, here's my kids, so that me and my spouse go out, have a good night. You made a judgment call. So I did judge it. No, man. My disagreement with it, I don't think is Judging it. [00:30:42] Speaker B: Well, you're making a judgment that it's wrong, but you're not condemning it in the sense of, like, I don't want to have anything to do with you, or I think you're going to hell or whatever. Even if you think that, like, that's why I said I don't disagree with your usage of it. Because he's definitely hearing the word condemnation when you say judge. So when you say, I don't judge you, he's getting the right message. Even though I disagree with how we're using that word, you know? [00:31:12] Speaker A: Mm. I would agree. I would agree. Yeah. [00:31:16] Speaker B: Yeah. And then the other thing is, like, how do you feel? Okay, so I think we're both agreed that, like, we wouldn't kick anyone out of the family and that, like, they would be welcome at events and stuff. [00:31:30] Speaker A: Dude, I don't even kick friends out of my friend group that are homosexual. You know, I'm just like, yeah, like, the girl that I worked with, I went to her game nights and stuff. And I didn't realize, but it was. It was like. It was like, lesbian night when I went to her game nights, you know? So, like, here I am thinking, like, okay, no, not nice, bro. Not nice. I'm getting dressed up, fresh and clean, and I go. And not one female's interested in me. That's not nice at all, bro. I'm spitting game with people that I have no chance with, and I didn't even know it. I pulled her aside the next day, like, hey, so which one of those girls was straight? She was like, not one of them. I'm like, that makes sense. [00:32:07] Speaker B: What the was I doing there then? [00:32:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:14] Speaker B: So how. How do you feel about, like, young kids? Because, like, four. [00:32:19] Speaker A: Whoa. [00:32:20] Speaker B: I don't know if you clarify what. Oh, shit. How do you feel about young kids being exposed to homosexual couples? Because I think 4 specifically has probably not really seen that a lot. So, like, how do you feel about, like, do we. There's. There's some, like, I'm going to get wildly off topic there. This one podcaster said, like, he kind of hushed the subject with his 4 and 5 year olds about starving kids in Africa because they don't know that that exists. And he just didn't want them to know for a little bit longer, you know what I mean? He's like, I don't need to put that shit on them, you know? And it's like, I would never think to keep that from a kid. But, like, how long, you know, isn't there an age at which you would be like, they don't need to fucking hear about the. Like, they don't need to see you two together. [00:33:18] Speaker A: I don't necessarily bring it up because again, they're recording the norm around them at a young age. They're recording in my lifestyle, a mom and dad at home or a dad and girlfriend or a mom and boyfriend. They're not recording mom, mom and girlfriend, dad and boyfriend. So I don't bring it up. However, we were watching a movie, it was a miniseries on Netflix called the Palma. And for some reason number four is really interested in sharks. So we've watched every shark movie there is. [00:33:51] Speaker B: I fucking love sharks. [00:33:53] Speaker A: We watched every shark movie there is. And, and natural disasters. So like tsunamis. Like we watched Twister 1 and 2 and so we watched La Palma, it was about a tsunami. And they decided that the 15 year old, 13 year old daughter that they have in this, this miniseries is going to be attracted to females. And so while they're on this vacation in La Palma, there's. She sees a female, they have a moment, they kiss. I'm watching with him like, whoa, cover your eyes. I personally, and this ain't a joke and we might get canceled for it, so I might want to say it's a joke, but I was like, hey, look, like they are clearly in sin. That ain't right. Something's wrong with them. And I kind of left it at that. However, I think the time to talk to them about something of the, of that nature is when they're exposed to it. [00:34:57] Speaker B: Yes, but do you want to stave that off a little bit longer? [00:35:03] Speaker A: No, because their mind's going to wonder. Their mind's going to run. Their mind is going to. And so we took the same approach that we kind of took with number three and are we. I and was like, hey, look, like, I want you to understand, like you can think God's creation a female, a male. I have no problem saying males are attractive. That doesn't mean I want it in my Kuloh. That doesn't mean. You don't mean, like I can say that's an attractive dude, you know, My daughter number three asked me the day she said, isn't he so, so cute? And she was talking about her boyfriend. I was like, I mean, he's not ugly, you know, like he was sitting there. I'm like, you're not a, like together. Yeah, it works. You're not an ugly dude. Would I honestly, if you were walking down the street be like, damn, that's a good looking dude, nah, nah, I wouldn't say that. I'd say that's, you know. But you're also not a dude that was walking down the street where I'd be like, damn, I bet his life is a struggle to get some, you know, I mean, like, it's, it's not like that. And you, he carries himself in such a way that it is, you do present yourself more attractive. That doesn't mean I want to go sleep with him. And the dudes that I do walk into a room and I'm like, man, bro, like, good for you. You know what I mean? I don't want to sleep with him either. It's just a, you know, it's almost like a game recognized game where I walk in, I'm like, okay, you're a good looking dude. I wouldn't. And so I try to explain that to her. Like you could think of females good looking without having to be affectionate or intimate with them. You know, like you can, you can recognize God's creation is, that's a beautiful woman without having to have those feelings of like, man, like I'm attracted to her. She's good looking person, she's attractive. Meaning she, she, you know, she, she gets people to think she's attract attractive. Like being attractive is people think you're good looking. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to be with them. You know, it's, it's like when you see an attractive person and we're watching a show right now called the Summit and there's a woman on there named Punkin, and she's a military woman who's homosexual. And I see her partner and I'm like, that girl must have a really good personality because her, her partner is Boots. And I say that because people are attracted to different things, but I feel like especially in my bloodline were attracted to looks. And therefore it's almost like, oh, I gotta be with that. I know that's something high on my list, you know what I mean? Like, I don't want to wake up every morning and look over and be like, well, she's got a good personality, you know what I mean? Like, I want to be, I want to be attracted to that individual. And it's got to be, it's got to be deeper than looks. But like, looks are what gets me to talk to you, you know what I mean? Unless, unless, unless I got 10 or 12 in me, I ain't talking to you. [00:38:10] Speaker B: It's the first thing you notice. It's crazy that it's like, wrong to say that. It's the first thing. [00:38:17] Speaker A: You're drunk. [00:38:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And you know what I've realized? I talked to. I've had associates at work that I talk to, and they're attractive women, and we'll talk and. And, like, it's almost like they're justifying their ugliness of their husband to me. You know, they're like, well, you know, like, you know, he wasn't someone I wanted to date for the longest time, but he was always there for me, and, you know, we just created this friendship. And then, like, you know, two years down the road, he asked me out, and we've been together ever since. And I'm just like, in my mind, I'm like, oh, this dude's ugly. Like, you're saying all this because, you know, I'm gonna judge a picture of your husband. [00:38:53] Speaker B: This is a backstory. This requires an explanation. [00:39:01] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. But again, I also, you know, I also don't settle for just looks. Like, you can be average you. Again, it could be someone that's not ugly, but not hot. Like, not someone that's. Wow. And your personality can make you very attractive because at the end of the day, like, yeah, you could be very good looking, but you can also be how I view Jenny McCarthy in her early years on MTV, where I was just like, man, like, you're a beautiful girl, but shut your mouth. Like, you're very obnoxious. You're very much like, you know, you're good looking, therefore you don't need any brains. I also don't want to wake up next to an idiot. You know what I mean? Like. Like we were talking about homeschooling. You know, it's like, man, you're good looking, but, hey, just, just, just. [00:39:51] Speaker B: She's pretty. [00:39:52] Speaker A: Don't open your mouth. [00:39:53] Speaker B: She's pretty, man. [00:39:58] Speaker A: Which is a reason why one of my journal entries I had to question how I view women. Because are they. Are they. Are they an accessory? You know, because every woman I date, I honestly think about company functions or events. This is a person on my arm. Is that who everybody else that I already knew priority expected to be on my arm? Which is shallow as shit. Like, I'm not. Not denying that, but that is one of the first thoughts. If I took her to a company function, function, would people say, man, that's exactly who I pictured, sir, being with someone like that? Or would they say, like, I need a backstory, you know? Yeah, it's a great way to put it. [00:40:40] Speaker B: Yeah, there. There was one that I. I dated this one girl that I kept secret for weeks for that exact reason. I was like. [00:40:53] Speaker A: I had so many girls like that. [00:40:54] Speaker B: She was. She was. She was a lot of fun. She was not a good person. She was fucking out to lunch. And the worst. The worst time. And if I had hit her, I would have been justified. She took my CD out of the CD player in my truck and threw it out the window. [00:41:16] Speaker A: So this is clearly before you knew me. [00:41:18] Speaker B: No, this was. This was 2018. [00:41:24] Speaker A: Okay. So did we part? Yeah, we. You were already out of. Out of. I was already out of California by then, right? Yeah. [00:41:31] Speaker B: Yeah. This was like, a couple weeks after you left. [00:41:34] Speaker A: Oh, so this is after. [00:41:37] Speaker B: Yeah, we had. We had just broken up. And. And. And l. It was like she would find out about some party or some birthday or something, and I'm probably not even going to that, honestly. I'm like, I can't. I can't bring her around anyone. Huh. [00:41:58] Speaker A: Did I know her? Did she hang around any of our circles? I've had a couple like that. Like, I. I dated a girl. I dated a girl so ugly, her dad questioned me. [00:42:10] Speaker B: Well, hey, it's like Shallow Hal. [00:42:13] Speaker A: Yeah, dude. Like, I went. I went to her event. Yeah, I went to her events, but I didn't invite her to my events. And I remember one night she invited me over for dinner to meet her dad. And I'm sitting there and her and her mom are cooking in the kitchen. He's like, so what do you. What are you seeing my daughter? What do you. What do you. What. What. What attracted you to my daughter? And in my mind, I'm like, oh, he's on to me. He's on to me. So I just laid on thick. Like, she's got a great personality, man. Like, she's. She's golden. No, what I didn't tell him was, great head. She's great. [00:42:48] Speaker B: I mean, you lost the opportunity to be so hilarious. Can you imagine if you had just said, great head? [00:42:56] Speaker A: No, man, I was still young enough to. Where I didn't want to do that. However, that was one of it. I mean, like, she didn't smoke weed. I was a pothead at the time. So, like, she would just be like, hey, put a cover over my head. Cool. And then she'd go do her thing while I'm just sitting there doing my thing. That. And she bought me anything I wanted. If I wanted that pair of jeans. I mean, like, that was one. Man, I was a shallow dude because I was one female that I would allow Me to buy whatever I wanted. Where now, as an adult or a less shallow person, I guess, like, I've had three or four females. Like, even being unemployed, I had a female that was like, let me just pay your rent for you. And I'm like, no. And she was like, please. I just couldn't allow it. I couldn't allow another female one to buy me a Wii. And I'm like, or, you know, the. The Nintendo split. And I'm like, man, I really want that, but don't do it. And she was like, why not? And I'm like, because, dude. Because then I feel like if we don't work out, I kind of got to give that back to you or something. [00:44:00] Speaker B: Like, I'm not giving it back. [00:44:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I feel shitty every time I played it, you know? [00:44:07] Speaker B: This one's for Crystal bowling in her memory. [00:44:16] Speaker A: You know what I'm saying? [00:44:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like more shallow that we can't accept anything from women now, right? Or is it not? I don't know. I'm trying to think of it. [00:44:28] Speaker A: It's like. [00:44:28] Speaker B: I feel like. I feel like a fucking Democrat when. [00:44:31] Speaker A: You feel like there's females that do the same. I feel like there's females that do the same in the sense of they'll allow you to buy their dinner, but they don't necessarily want you to buy them jewelry. You know, I think there's. I think for me, it's a. [00:44:45] Speaker B: Now. [00:44:46] Speaker A: Especially now, it's a. It's a level of commitment. We have to meet. You can buy me whatever you want if we're at that commitment stage, but if we're not at that commitment stage, nah, player. Like, I ain't gonna allow you to buy me. Because I know ultimately there's a part of me that's using you for these items, and I want to make sure there's a commitment there. I gotta live with myself at the end of the day, bro. You know? I mean, like, I got to be able to sleep at night and be like, cool. I don't want to brag about, oh, this. This female bought me this. Because I wouldn't be saying female. First of all, I'd be derogatory, speaking about them, you know, like, this. This one got me this and this. No, no. I mean, that's just. That's not how I want to be portrayed, you know? And I want to. I take pride in buying my stuff. I take pride in saying, like, I got that. You know, it's bad enough my house is furnished by my sister you know, like. And she did it because I was giving my checks to my ex when we first split. And I lived in an apartment for eight months without no furniture, like, no Internet, no cable, nothing. I was just. I just paid for my electrical bill, my phone bill, and groceries and rent. That was it. And so the only furnished room in the house was number four's room because she moved in with me and brought her own furniture. Otherwise I was sleeping on foam mats and trying to make the best of it with my daughter with a projector and whatever, you know, whatever shows I could watch on, you know, from my phone to the projector. So, yeah, it was, it was, it was a shitty time, but it was, it was probably one of the best times because I literally dealt with every thought. Literally dealt with, you know, emotions that I experienced since I was a kid that were so familiar to me that I. That I hated. And it was just like, how do I get out of this? How do I get out of. I just remember standing in front of the toaster oven, it was my daughter's toaster oven too. And I'm toasting some Tostitos, which I think are Tostinos now, but those little pizza rolls. And I just remember thinking, like, been here for so long. Like I've been in this emotional funk for so long, like something's got to change. And that's when I had to take a look at what, what's gonna change it, you know, like nothing's gonna change outwardly if something doesn't change inwardly and you have to change something. Like something's gotta go. But I remember my sister text me one day, she said, are you home? And I'm like, yeah. She's like, will you be there at 9:30? And I'm like, yeah, I ain't got nothing to do. I ain't got no money. Brings up another thought. Anyhow, two movers show up to the door with a shit ton of furniture. Couches, chairs, bedroom sets. And I'm like, what's this? She's like, I know it's not the best. I found it on Facebook, you know, whatever media or what is that marketplace? And she goes, but, you know, hopefully this helps, man. It changed my whole outlook. Like it really. I felt like it was the weirdest thing, cuz I felt like a person. Like, I felt like it's like, I know it was missing into. Yeah, I didn't know till it arrived. Exactly. And like I was. I was not embarrassed to have people over anymore, you know, Cuz I'd have Guy friends that would come check on me. And I'm like, hey, look, like, I got these two folding chairs on the patio. We go kick it out there. But that was all we were doing, you know, our folding chairs. We bring the folding chairs in the living room to watch, you know, play video games on the, you know, Xbox box or whatever. And that was really it. But once you had the furniture, I was like, wow. I didn't realize how it felt to be a person or an individual, you know, like, this is crazy. And. But the other thought of that was, it made me question. Like, I remember one night she came over and she just degraded the. Out of me. I was going to therapy. I felt like I had some, like, I. I reached a certain, you know, pointing myself where I was. I was happy with who I was. And I just remember telling her, like, man, like, for once, I'm. I'm happy with who I am. And, you know, I said, I don't know if I've ever felt like that. I think I got to move these headphones. I think they're picking up my beard scratching on the mic. I said, I'm happy with who I am. And I never realized. Like, I'm just happy. And I'm like, I'm not happy about the circumstance, but, like, I'm really happy with. With. With who I am as a person. And her response was like, I hate seeing you happy. I hate the fact that you're happy when you've done so much to our family. Like, I hate it, and I hope you're never happy. And it was just like, whoo. I remember going into the house and I'm like, man, I was so, like, hurt. And my initial response was, I want to go to a bar and I want to be around females. But I was broke, mind you. I'm giving her my whole paycheck. So I was like, yeah, but you can't go out. You have no money to go out. And so then I had to sit with the thought of, why was that my knee jerk reaction? Why was that where I wanted to go as soon as something hit? Like, why? And I had to sit with that. Why? What am I finding comfort in? Like, am I trying to camo? Like, not camouflage, but am I trying to, like, not really address how I feel right now? And therefore, I just want to be around females and do something sinful and, you know, go find comfort in somebody else's arms. [00:50:15] Speaker B: Well, I think you wanted to find a woman who would respect you when you were so disrespected. In that moment. And then also numb yourself and move past. [00:50:27] Speaker A: No, I, I don't think it was the numbing the self and I don't think it was that either because that's my knee jerk reaction almost all the time when calamity hits, you know, like, go be around people. Maybe, maybe in man, maybe I'm still working this out right now, but maybe it was go be around people who don't fully know who you are and therefore you could be who you want and have somebody like you for who you're portraying to be. I don't know. But it was definitely something that I had to look at and it was crazy because I ended up buying a good sized bottle of whiskey that night and I drank everything but, I drank everything but maybe an inch from the bottom of that bottle. And I just got a new job. I wake up, it was a Tuesday night. I woke up Wednesday afternoon in the bathtub and I only woke up because I was drowning in the bathtub and I realized I must have hit the drain because the showers on, I'm laying down in it and I'm like, holy crap. I grabbed my phone, which is next to the, the bathtub. I call, I Look, it's 9, 9:30. I call work. I was supposed to be there latest seven, but I usually get there at 4:30, so I'm five and a half hours behind schedule. I call them and I'm like, hey, I think I ate something bad last night. I'm not gonna be able to make it in. Their response was, what the are you saying? I said I think I had some bad. I think I got food poisoning. I'm not gonna make it in. They said, it sounds like you're underwater. I can't hear a word you're saying. We'll see you tomorrow. Hangs up I go in Thursday, still drunk. Like I'm still really, I'm really woozy. I'm just there. I'm trying to just be present. I'm feeling really horrible. And I, I sit them both down, my project manager, my project coordinator, and I'm like, hey, look, I. I told myself at the beginning of this year I wasn't gonna lie anymore. And I lied to you guys. I didn't get food poisoning. Here's the situation. She came over last night. She said I was a shitty person and this and that. And I went and bought a bottle of whiskey and just drank until I blacked out. I said, I think I'm still intoxicated because I don't feel right. And they Were like, well, you know, thank you for being honest. They reaffirmed, you know, I haven't known you long, but you're a good dude. And if you ever get like that, feel free to call one of us. I didn't feel right until Friday. And Friday I went into my room after work. I grabbed my clothes from the dirty laundry because they stink. And I realized at that moment, oh shit, I pissed myself. Like, these pants are covered in piss. And all the stuff that's all over my living room floor now, mind you, it dried, but there was chunks of stuff everywhere on my living room floor. I couldn't figure out what it was. I threw up all over my living room floor. Now in the midst of this, number four is living with me. And she is like, she leaves for like a week. She goes to California for a week and doesn't come back. And she comes back eventually, but she didn't come back for a week. And I realized, like, man, like the. Everything that I did in response to the. What she had said, I mean, it just triggered something to me that I had to address. And so, yeah, that was a really rough time, but it was a great time to actually encounter God and address some of the things that I think I struggled with for years. [00:54:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that's why those times produce that. It's kind of a fork in the road kind of thing where in the hardest times you're either going to do the hard work and figure out what's wrong and how you can improve it, or you're just going to go down worse path and just. And just intensify it. [00:54:29] Speaker A: I think that's the moment that I realized there's no quit in me. Like, I've had price seven good suicide attempts in my life. Everything from hanging myself to taking pills, to putting the exhaust in the window and taking sleeping aids, to putting a gun to my head and pulling the trigger. And none of the, you know, I slipped my wrist one, one time, none of them were successful. But I also think I was. I wasn't fully committed, you know, I wasn't fully committed to the cause. I say that jokingly, but. Good. [00:55:02] Speaker B: Were these suicide attempts. You said good. [00:55:07] Speaker A: I still have the scar from the, from the wrist. I'm take a whole bottle of pills. The exhaust one was. I actually duct taped the tube to the exhaust, the hose to the exhaust, put it in my window, taped it to my window and put tape on the gap of the window. Took NYQuil or ZQuil so you wouldn't wake up. Yeah. Took some Zquil sat there, cried for a little bit, and just dozed off. I wake up. I just remember waking up and I look over and there's a car. I'm at a park. A park in an area that's not really built out yet. It was north, it was like South Foothill Ranch before they completed Alton. And no Alton was completed, but it was at an undeveloped area. Like when they're building all those new homes and stuff, it wasn't fully developed. So I'm thinking, like, people will find me in the morning. I'm good. And so I look over and there's a car sitting there with its lights on. And it's just like they're watching me. And so I'm like, oh, they called the cops. Like, they're reporting me. They're reporting a suicide attempt. Like in front of their eyes, do I jump out, I take the hose off, I just like, I throw it all in the car. Like, I rip it all off, I pull it and I drive off. And they're following me and I'm like, oh, shit, dude. Now this isn't the first time I've been followed, so I'm pretty good at losing a tail. Dude, I booked it. I was just everywhere, just going everywhere. Try not to let them even get close enough to see my license. I run home to. To my ex and my best friend who's. Who's there at the time, and. And I'm like, look, if the cops come. I was in the garage this whole time. And she was like, why are you saying this? I was like, just let you know if the cops come. I was in the garage the whole time. [00:56:57] Speaker B: I need you to shut the up and I need you to listen. Was in the garage the whole time. [00:57:05] Speaker A: So you know, And I remember our first suicide attempt was. I don't know, I was probably 10, 11. And I hooked up a chain to a swinging chair and stood up with the chain around my neck and just kind of let it go. The thing collapsed. I busted my lip. But other attempts of. I've tried to hang myself probably three or four times, but they've all failed. When I took the pills, my ex of my first daughter walked in and saw the empty bottle next to me and was like, did you take all these? And she called 911 right away and I was like, I went to jump out the window and my mom walked in and kind of talked me down. And I'm like, dude, it's a two story house. I'm not gonna die from this guy. He's Like, I'm not going headfirst first. I'm just trying to escape the confrontation right now, you know, my. You know, like, so you've got a. [00:58:03] Speaker B: Belly full of a bottle of pills, and you're the voice of reason still. [00:58:09] Speaker A: Yeah. So the ambulance comes. Rationally, ambulance comes, cops come, and they're like, so were you trying to commit suicide? And I was like, nah, I just had it. I had. My knee ached, you know, and I took a couple pills, and, you know, my knee wouldn't stop aching, so I just. I just figured I'd take more and, you know, just played dumb. And they took me to the hospital. I drank a charcoal shake, and, you know, I got interviewed by, you know, a therapist, and they were like, so were you trying to take your life? Is there anything. I'm like, no, honestly, like, I was just. Literally, I wasn't somebody that necessarily wanted help. Like, if. If you're going to help me, like, call that one Dr. Kevorkian. You know what I mean? Like, that's the doctor I need help with, you know, like, call me someone like that. Yeah. But those eight months just being inside the apartment, dealing with my thoughts, dealing with God, honestly made me realize that I'm not. I'm not. I'm not built to quit, man. You know? So I know pretty much anything that life handles me, I'll make it through. It just might not be on my. My circumstances, I guess. Yeah, man, that got dark. [00:59:28] Speaker B: Yeah, we keep it light. We do what we can. Trying to get back to our topic, but I. I'm. I'm fresh. [00:59:43] Speaker A: Our topic was. Our topic was sin, you know, cutting people off that are in sin. But I think we landed that plane with, you know, love conquers all. Love, Proper love, not perverse. Love conquers all. And although we don't have to agree with the morals or. You know, there was a shirt I used to have that says, I will not lower my standards to raise yours. And I think it's something like that. You know, I'm not gonna go against my beliefs to make you feel accepted. However, know that I love you as you are, although I may not approve of what you do. So. I know we're reaching the hour and 15 mark. I know we started a little late, so we're probably a little short of that even. But, you know what. What was your. I think this is a great transition to see. What'd you get from journaling about your ministry and not going into it? [01:00:43] Speaker B: Oh, I. I chose. How do I view myself? You gave me Three options. I chose that one. [01:00:53] Speaker A: Oh. After all the, you know, really, what really hit hit hit me was, you know, why I didn't choose to go into ministry? Now you're like, nah, nah, nah, nah. I took. I took a different route. [01:01:03] Speaker B: No, you gave me three. Three choices to journal from. It was, how do I view myself? How do I view marriage? And how do I view women? [01:01:12] Speaker A: How does your wife view you? [01:01:14] Speaker B: Oh, how does my wife. Yeah, exactly. Neither of those, none of those were, why didn't I go into. I did go into ministry. I played bass on something. [01:01:21] Speaker A: No, but when I said that, your rebuttal was, oh, yeah, you know what, though? Like, what really stuck, struck a chord with me was, you know, and you'll hear it back on. On episode two. But you were like, I'm afraid I will. Mystery and why I didn't go into it. And I was like, perfect, do that. [01:01:35] Speaker B: I didn't mean it that way. I was complimenting your prompts. I was like, I thought that was brilliant for you specifically. [01:01:45] Speaker A: Oh, very, very well. Okay, so what. How do you view yourself there? [01:01:49] Speaker B: Not well, as it turns out. Nah, I. Only for those listening at home. I think we recorded episode two three days ago, so I've only gotten a chance to journal about that once. And basically it was a great starting point for future journaling, maybe even tonight. But it basically was just like, first and foremost, I am not what I view my. Myself as. Like, I. On almost any level, I. I am not as good looking as I think I am. I'm not as chill as I think I am. I'm not as well spoken as I think I am. Those are the minor things. I'm not successful. I'm not. I can't support my family. I can't. I just like, really, really let myself have it. And. And I think the next step to that, it kind of just ended there. But I think the next step to that is definitely addressing, like, well, what's the first step, the smallest tiny step to getting to actually who you view yourself as, Which I guess is who I want to be. Right. [01:03:08] Speaker A: Well, I want to address some of those things. The good looking thing, you were spot on. The bastard. [01:03:16] Speaker B: That was your one. An opportunity to say I was wrong. That was the only one you could have said. [01:03:26] Speaker A: Well, I ain't gonna lie. If you were walking down the street, I wouldn't be like, damn. But you know, I honestly also wouldn't be like, he's all right. No, no. People have to get to know you. So. [01:03:42] Speaker B: Okay, you guys see Me with my shirt off and all my cool tattoos. [01:03:47] Speaker A: Oh, dude, you probably do have some cool tattoos. [01:03:49] Speaker B: You guys see what I'm bringing to the table? [01:03:53] Speaker A: Are we talking Ed Norton, History X or what are we talking about? [01:03:56] Speaker B: Dude, dude, that's so funny that you said that. Just today on a podcast. They were saying, would you take his body in that movie? But you have to keep the swastika tattoo on your chest. You can't get rid of the swastika tattoo. And it's three Jews talking about this. And they all agreed. They were like, yeah, I would take the body. I could explain. [01:04:21] Speaker A: Yes, sadly I would too. Yeah, sadly I would too. [01:04:24] Speaker B: I could easily explain the tattoo away. I could say I changed my life. I could say it was a dare. I could say it was a radio bit. Like, I could say whatever I could. [01:04:33] Speaker A: End it with, it came with the body. [01:04:35] Speaker B: I mean, yeah, literally, I could tell the truth. I could say the genie made me keep the tattoo. But then a few of them were like, I could just fuck the most racist chick I could find. I mean, like, I don't have to. I don't have to explain it away. [01:04:52] Speaker A: I worked with a white supremacist guy, biker dude, skinhead, totally yoked out. And he used to run a pimp house where like, he would have. He'd rent an apartment, a good sized apartment or a house, and he put cameras up and he said that his black girl got more skinhead Nazi dudes to sleep with her than anybody else in the house. Oh, yeah, he said it's. He said they, they just love it, but they'll never admit to it. As far as you being chill, I think you are chill in comparison. I think, I think your non chillness is, is, you know, when I think of is your reaction to things like, you will commentate this. [01:05:39] Speaker B: How the would you say that? [01:05:42] Speaker A: You will commentate the out of. You'll watch it. You'll chilly watch it. Go on. Like, you'll be chill while it's going on, but after, after, like, during and after, whoever you're standing next to is getting an earful of what you say. Like your antics. You're like, oh, like this. You'll just say some, some random. So I do, I do think you're chill in comparison to others. As far as you being successful. Successful's a scale that you hold for yourself. So you might not be successful according to your scale, but you may be successful compared to other people. As far as you providing for your family. Dude, you own a house. You know, your Your family's still living in it. You're not in a hurry to get out and. And, you know, get back to California in. You know, in. In. In your parents household or anything like that. You're. You're. You're like, hey, I would like to. Because you know that, you know, you can save some money, but it's not like an urgency where you're like, hey, we got to move out tonight. I can't afford the rent or the mortgage. I can't afford the mortgage. And, you know, the bank's taking it tomorrow, so I think you are providing for your house. It just might not be to the standard or the level that you want, but I think you're doing a damn, damn good job at that. Part of my journey in life was I was 40 years old. This is five years ago. I was sitting on the patio with my wife. The porch, our front porch. And I remember sitting there talking to her, and I just looked over at her and I said, I like who I am. She's like, what? And I'm like, for the first time in my life, I actually like the man that I am. And it wasn't based on any of my thoughts, because my thoughts tear me down. My thoughts look at me in a certain way. At the same time, I was also fixed mindset. I wasn't looking at things in a different light or a different scope. And I just remember telling her, I like who I am. And she was like, what do you mean by that? I said, well, everybody that I meet and everybody that I talk to, and a lot of people that I engage with, with daily look up to me if. If you will. And I'm not saying that to be arrogant or egotistical, but, like, they voice it, you know, even in school of ministry, I remember sitting there with Joseph Clus, and he was just like, man, you. You say the things I think, but I don't have the balls to say them. And I'm like, it is what it is, bro. Like, if our teacher's requesting us to have something done by a certain date, and he comes to the class unprepared, but he's talking about preparedness with us, I want to point it out, you know, like, it's, you know, like, I'm gonna let Mr. Westerland know that, hey, you're asking me to be prepared, and yet you show up unprepared. It kind of sounds hypocritical. I just remember looking at her and saying, based on what I gather from other people, I'm a pretty Cool dude. And I didn't realize that. It took me a long time to realize that. And so, so that was the, you know, you don't necessarily have to look at what you think about yourself. But I say, I'd say actually sit down and take some great consideration and those in your, your, your sphere of influence and, and look at what they say about you. You know, look at what they say about you. If I could say someone like. And you keep that in here. But yeah, I could say someone like, probably, probably views himself as a. I mean, we would have parties and we'd invite our neighbors, our friends and their number one response after engaging with was, is he going to be there? Because if he's going to be there, I don't care to come. And so I say, you know, even as his best friend at the time, he's a dick, is very emotional, emotionally immature. You know, if he's going through something, he's going to express it. He's not going to keep it quiet. He's going to try and become confrontational with whoever he can. And he always picks weaker people. You know, he throws taco at a car of a female driving by one night and got in her face. He threw a soda at a guy that was a Hispanic dude trying not to get into any confrontation, was trying to avoid him. And when the dude finally walked away, threw a soda at him. You know, we had a bartender that said we couldn't bring outside food in that was a friend of ours, he knew all this. Throws the, the freaking pizza at the shelves of all the liquor behind him and just goes off. And it's just like, dude, you, you pick on, you pick fights and with people that you know you can beat because they're not going to confront you the way you should be confronted, like you're just a dick. And so with that, I'm going to transition into my thoughts, my thoughts according to what you had told me to look at, which was what I thought life would be like with, with my ex had we had we get got back together. And so I kind of started with that question. I said, as for me, I really didn't get options. I was referring to the question I didn't get options. He kind of just chose that one for me. But you put me on the spot. If I remember, this is something I, I definitely think about often. And so with those thoughts, you know, I, I really wanted to unpack this. And so honestly, I don't know. I don't know what I'm. I know what I'm willing to do. I don't know what she's willing to do or willing to give up. I know what I'm willing to do. Commit to. To give up, to not participate in. And so, you know, I think the difficult part is I. I have no clue where she stands. She. She definitely seems, at this point in our relationship, self consumed when we hang out. Not to mention, like, every now and then, a reminder of the man I was. You know, if I say something like, oh, I think it's funny. You insulted my family forever, but you're keeping our last name. Like, that's just funny. You want to be associated with us in that sense, but, like, professionally, you're going by our last name. You haven't changed your last name, like, yet. You put down my family for 20 years, and now you're keeping the last name. And she's like, why? I earned it. I earned keeping the last name because of what you put me through. Whenever something else is brought up, you know, it's always like, well, you know, I earned it because of what you did and what you've done. The picture painted is that I ruined the marriage with my infidelities. However, like I expressed in number three the other day, I said, you know, it's crazy because she paints me as the one that ruined the marriage, but even from her friends, I've heard stories of her infidelities, but they can't necessarily. They don't have. They don't have the receipts, you know, like, oh, she left with a guy when we went out that night, but she came back a couple hours later saying she was preaching the gospel to him. Well, you have no place leaving with a guy. You know, when your best friend says, you know, like, oh, I went on a date and he brought a friend, so I brought your wife. And while me and him were in the room fucking, they were all playing pool. We don't know they were playing pool. You're in the room fucking. How you know they were playing pool? Because they. You came back out and they're around the pool table. Could just mean they got done quicker than you. Who fucking knows you, you know, but, you know, the picture painted is that I ruined the marriage with my infidelities. And so the difference for me is with my actions, I confess them and take complete ownership of them. You know, when. When. When something's brought to my face that I've done, yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna own up to it. I'm gonna take the. The repercussions. And the consequences for them. But she's just never done that. Like, even with the. Even with the whole church incident of her with the assistant pastor for six weeks, that's the only thing she really holds up to. And she's like, oh, we never did anything. You guys had an emotional affair. You kissed, you let him touch certain parts of your body. I mean, like, you just trying to sign that off as well. In comparison, it's not as bad. [01:14:16] Speaker B: I tell you, man, that story gets a little bit worse every time I hear it. You just draw me new info on me. [01:14:26] Speaker A: Well, that was the whole thing of my email sent out to the whole congregation was they were trying to let him stay in place. And I'm like, dude, this dude had emotional affair, kissed my wife. He touched body parts on my wife. Like, that's. That's not something a pastor should be doing, no matter if he's assistant or not. But she kind of, in comparison to what I've done, downplays it. And it's like, well, I never emotionally got connected to these females. I just kind of used them and threw them out, you know, Like, I didn't. It was just to get me by for a night or, you know what I mean? It wasn't something I was, like, going out, trying to get emotionally involved with. It was just like, oh, I got an itch. I'm gonna scratch it. You know, I didn't put any ointment on it or anything like that. You know, the doctor said it should go away, though. And then, you know, there are times where, like, you know, she shares her work life, and whether it's intentional or not, she brings up other males. I have no problem with that. I really don't. But I feel like if I go into my work life and engagements. For instance, my last project was with two females underneath me and a male. [01:15:40] Speaker B: Yeah, they were. [01:15:41] Speaker A: I engaged. [01:15:42] Speaker B: High five. [01:15:48] Speaker A: But I guarantee you, I bring up our conversations or our camaraderie or anything, you know, I'm gonna get some type of question that follows that. Oh, so it may be accusations. Oh, so is that like your new work wife? You know, I don't know, but I know it's not going to be the same. And it's going to be on the basis of my history and my infidelities that I was caught in. And mind you, 90% of these infidelities I wasn't caught in. I fessed up to them. You know, like, I. I tried to own it. And so, you know, the other part of it is. I will never. I'll never ask her to drop friends. One of them being my ex best friend who she still has a relationship with. I'll never be like, hey, you can't talk to him anymore. That's something she's gonna have to decide to do based on where we're at. But it also, also doesn't seem like she's interested. You know, she. She's shown interest and. But again, are they in a fight and she's showing interest because they're in a fight and she. I don't know, but she doesn't really show interest after vocally saying it. And she wants to be pursued, yet she doesn't really show it. You know, like, if I tell a female, pursue me, and she sends me a text, I'm probably gonna get back to that text with some respect of time. I'm not gonna wait three, four hours and then finally return respond. And I feel like she does that, which means clearly I'm not a priority. Why? Because I know you're. I'm with you sometimes I see your phone in hand. It's not like your phone's. You come home, you put your phone on the nightstand and you walk away from it. And so, you know, I just had to ask, can I do that? You know, could I. Could I. If I switch shoes, could, Could I do that? Can I do that without having to hear about my past? I really don't know. What I do know is when I point out something or disagree, there's been instances where she'll justify her action, saying that it's basically restitution for what I put her through. And so when I say instance, I don't mean that it's all the time, but in the two months that we were looking at possibly going back together, I heard it probably three or four times about what I'd done. And mentally, for me, that's not where I want to be. I don't want to be reminded of the guy I am because I'm looking forward to the guy who I'm going to be. And so I finished it with. I just don't want to go back to that. However, my attitude toward the situation is. The attitude towards the situation, the thing that the Lord is trying to deal with me about currently. Like, is he. I was thinking about this on, on the today. It's. It's a thought that constantly comes through my mind. But like, I thought about actually bringing it up on this, on. In this segment tonight, me being unemployed for three months, knowing I'm a damn good superintendent. Is it, is he allowing it because I'm not doing something or because of something I've done? And this thought came up because I. There's a, there's a pad, like a electronic pad called Remarkable. And my last company bought it for me, but they forgot I had it till after they like, laid me off. And I was like, well, they laid me off, like, fuck them. And I wanted to keep it because I had an electronic Bible on it that had like, what I'm looking for versus on the left, clean slate, nothing on the right. I can make my notes, write up my sermons, do whatever I need to do. And it was awesome. I could erase it, I could transfer it to PDF, it was such. It's a great tablet, but it's like $600. And I always kick myself in the ass because I didn't walk away with it. But I was like, would I be sitting here thinking, I'm unemployed for three months because I had that stolen piece of property? You know, would I be sitting here saying, well, you're not getting work because you didn't, you didn't handle yourself right. You should have returned the tablet. And then eventually would I return the tablet? I don't know. I would have, but eliminate that. Well, now it's like, is he allowing me to not have work because I'm not being obedient in pursuing my ex wife? Or is it something else? Like I'm constantly, every day, quote, questioning, is it because I'm not doing what he wants, or is it because of something I've done? And it's a real hard place to be for me right now. [01:20:31] Speaker B: I think that's a pretty dangerous road to go down when you start thinking about all the ways that your actions are controlling God. [01:20:44] Speaker A: You know, not controlling God, but with wisdom, with knowledge of how God operates. Am I, am I falling into one of those categories and how he's operated in the past? You know, he's an unchanging God. He's the same then as he is now. When there was sin in the camp of, after the battle of A or I or whatever the AI place, he was like, you're not going to win your next battle unless you get rid of this sin. You know, and it was somebody that stole some stuff after the battle and put it under their rug and their tent. He was like, they're sinning your camp. I'm not going to bless you. So there's that category. Is there sin in my camp? [01:21:24] Speaker B: But are you sinning by not pursuing Your ex wife. [01:21:30] Speaker A: If I clearly know that God told me that we're supposed to get back together and I'm sitting here and I clearly have this conversation with God of do what you got to do, partner, because I ain't doing it. [01:21:43] Speaker B: Looks like you're covered now. [01:21:45] Speaker A: I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I didn't know you and curb stomp me. Hold on, hold on, man, hold on. [01:21:51] Speaker B: Do what you gotta do. [01:21:55] Speaker A: I mean, there's that, there's that view, but then there's also the view of. I mean, like, it's to the point where I'm like, no pornography, no sex outside of marriage. Like, that's the, that's the real struggle. Because every female that I have over that's friend, acquaintance or whatever, we end up doing it. And so I'm to the point now where I just don't even. I don't even reach out to them. I was listening to episode one today and I was like, oh, I was supposed to reach out to homegirl. I won't reach out to her. I won't reach out to anybody right now that's female. Because I don't want to put myself in that situation. Like, I'm literally seeking the Lord in this. Like, not. I don't want to bring it up, but I'm gonna. Because it's kind of drastic. But I'm on my. I'm going on 48 hours of. Not of just fasting. Just what? Just liquid. Because I'm like, lord, I wanna, I wanna show you how serious I am about pursuing you. Like, I want. You know, it was pretty shitty too, because we're sitting there watching our show tonight and my daughter walks in with her boyfriend, walks in with Portillo's, and it's like a French dip and a hot dog and some good ass fries. [01:23:03] Speaker B: I love that place, dude. [01:23:06] Speaker A: And onion rings. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh. And they're like, do you want any fries? And I'm like, oh. Everything in me was like, well, it'd be rude to say no to someone that's, you know, I mean, I'm trying to justify it. [01:23:17] Speaker B: They don't know. [01:23:18] Speaker A: No, I'm good. [01:23:19] Speaker B: They don't know that you're fasting. [01:23:20] Speaker A: Well, my daughter does. I told her, I said, hey, look, you know, and so. And she was the one that asked me. And then she was like, oh, fasting. I'm like, you know what I'm saying? Like, in my mind I was like, bitch, you know, hourly. I was like, no, I'm good. And she's like, oh, you still fasting? I'm like, yeah, I am, but. But then she even brought that up when I had something else to drink. She's like, oh, I thought you were fasting. I'm like, I still need water. I still need. Yo, it was vape. I said, hey, let me get your vape. She was like, I thought you were fasting. I was like, not fasting from the vape. What? Like, come on. I'm fasting from food. I mean, the idea is that when I get. I'm still doing every liquid that I would like, I'll drink iced tea. I'll drink coffee. I'll drink wine. I'm just using the hunger pains to redirect me to prayer. You know, when I get hunger pains, I'm like, okay, the purpose of this is to pray over pray. You know, I don't want it to be selfish prayer where I'm just praying over my situation. So I'm like, I want to pray for those who have assisted me. I want to pray for those. You know, I want to pray for my daughter's needs because she's voiced them the other night. Like, I want to just pray for people. And so that's kind of where I'm redirecting my hunger pains. But as far as the ex, I'm not opposed to it. I don't know how it would look. But at the same time, I know we're not there. I know that we're not there until she makes. She has to make us a line in the sand that says, I'm not going to be friends with the person that was your best friend that I end up dating afterwards and having sex with, you know, during our marriage. You know, like, that line has to be drawn first. [01:25:02] Speaker B: Well, that's kind of what I meant when I said, you're not sinning by not pursuing her. You know, what I. What I really meant was, like, it would be nuts to jump back into that right now. So, like, it's on ice. So, like, not pursuing her is not really sin in my view. And so for you to take something that I don't think is sin, we can disagree about that, but, like, I don't think it's sin. And then you say, like, well, God's punishing me because of this thing I'm doing. It's like, I don't know. That's a lot of leaps, honestly, that I don't know if you can. [01:25:39] Speaker A: It is. But at the same time, like, our Main basis for doing this, mine and hers, is for the family unit to be together. I know there was one time she was sitting on the couch, and I said. I voiced how I felt about it. I said, look, this is like, when God told me this, I said, no, player, I ain't doing that. And she goes, here's what God told me about certain instances, not specifically this one, but he said, if I'm asking you to do something, your feelings don't matter to me. Your feelings have no part in what I'm asking you to do. I'm asking you to do something. Just do it. And she almost presented like it was a business transaction where she's like, look, we don't really have. And I was like, okay. Like. But at the same time, like. And I'm not God, so I can't really say this is what it's geared on. But for us to get back together now would only be perfect because of number four's age. [01:26:34] Speaker B: Yeah, it. [01:26:36] Speaker A: As she gets older, she'll get more normalized to it, and therefore, it's not necessary to get back together for the family unit. You know, for right now. I'm just trying not to. I'm not. It's not even trying. I just don't want to go to war with her, you know, I don't want her to, you know, continually call the cops because I went and picked up my tools or, you know, which was happening during our separation. She said, I stole these tools. They were. And he came and picked up tools, and they're not his, and they're her boyfriend's. And I had the cops questioning about that. And I had to submit paper or pictures of five years prior with me with those tools on the job site. And I'm like, what the. Like, serious. This is where we're going with it. Like, we're going that route. Going to drag it out and bring law into it when it's not necessary. I just don't want to go to war. I'm okay with being at peace, but I just don't think now's the time. Again, I'm not God. I'm not. I don't work in his timing. I don't know his timing. I shouldn't say I don't work in it. I don't know his timing. And so, you know, I can't say that it won't happen in the future. I just know it's not happening now. [01:27:45] Speaker B: Yeah. So I. If it's not happening now, I don't think you're doing Anything wrong by not pursuing her, you know? [01:27:57] Speaker A: Yeah. But I did commit to her that I would pursue her on Thanksgiving. However, Christmas and Christmas. Then Christmas came around, and, man, I was throwing back that whiskey like it was water, like everybody else was throwing mixers in it. I'm like, nah, just give me straight. And mind you, it was flavored whiskey, so it was a little easier, but. [01:28:18] Speaker B: Oh, was it the gym? [01:28:19] Speaker A: They knew there was a difference. No, it was Crown, Royals, BlackBerry. And so, you know, they were asking, like, are you okay? Is everything cool? And the. The following day, you know, I. You know, I was a little more sober, and I said, hey, look, you know, just. This just brought some clarity to me and gave me some things to research, recon to consider. I didn't say reconsider, but I said things to consider. And so, you know, that's. That's all it was, you know, and she was like, what do you mean? I was like, well, I just. I just feel like, you know, there's your one way sometimes in a different way other times, and I'm personally just not interested in that right now. Yeah, so that's. That's where my journaling took me, bro. All right, so what are we going to touch on next week, man? Or. Or whenever we meet again? Whether it's in three or four days or next Wednesday? What are we. What are we going to talk about? [01:29:16] Speaker B: Do we have a topic list? [01:29:20] Speaker A: I don't think so. I mean, I've been writing down things. One of the things we did talk about last time was sacrifices for our children. Yeah. What kind of sacrifices do we make for our children? Which is not a bad topic. I think one topic is good because we. We do go off trail, which I like, you know, more. I like going off trail more than I like touching on the topic. [01:29:40] Speaker B: We stayed on topic tonight longer than any other topic we've done, though, to be fair. [01:29:46] Speaker A: We did. We did. But, you know, let's just start with sacrifices for children, for our children, and see where. Where it goes from there. [01:29:53] Speaker B: All right. Yeah, I like that. [01:29:57] Speaker A: Awesome. Well, this is. This is episode three of Pseudonyms podcast. You're talking to Oswald and. And, yeah, I totally forgot the name he gave for me because. And Tyson. I was way off, man. I was thinking something else. This is Oswald and Tyson just signing off. I hope you guys have a good night, and if I don't see you, have a good afternoon, a good evening, and a good night. [01:30:23] Speaker B: Is that Truman Show? [01:30:26] Speaker A: It is the Truman Show. [01:30:30] Speaker B: Delightful. Good night, everybody. [01:30:32] Speaker A: Awesome. Good night, man. Love you, bro.